What is going on with me?

Married for over 5 years. Usually pretty consistent with having sex. But I have hit a spurt where I have no desire. Not at all. When i asked my husband what was wrong this morning, he said to me “you dont please me sexually. Like at all.”
I know something is off. I have an apt with my obgyn. How do i handle being told that? I’m so crushed. I feel disgusting. Help

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Help a mama out and respond anonymously on our forum. What is going on with me? - Mamas Uncut

You might also wanna see your pcp. Have a blood test ran. Lots of things can contribute to low sex drive. Hormones, mental things, something could be wrong too

Maybe do other intimate things… Shower together… Massages… oral… watch porn together… it might get you turned on to the point you want to have sex again … has anything changed lately ? Financially ? Stress ? New baby? Medication? Anything like that? That could all damper a sex drive

be honest with him about it and dont feel bad. If he is right for you he will be there with you through this challenging time. I went through this as well and what has helped I started a libido boost pill. Pls dont feel disgusting.

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Things change, Discuss with him what floats his boat and think about how it sets with you, Remind him Marriage is a partnership and sex is an adventure, Sfaring them is love

Get your thyroid checked…that dose have a lot to do with it…if your thyroid is low then you will lose your sex drive as well as other health problems it can and will cause

How hurtful…
I’m all for speaking the truth, but there’s a way to do it without crushing someone’s heart, soul & spirit.
I’m sorry you’re feeling bad, but one thing is for sure, YOU are NOT the DISGUSTING one.

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That is a really harsh way of putting it. He definitely could have expressed his feelings better. It should be about both of you. Is he pleasing you? Are you enjoying it? Remember it’s about 2 people enjoying each other. It shouldn’t be one sided. Talk with your doctor and try to find out if there is a medical reasons or something going on maybe it’s mental, are extra you’re stressed etc. Is your husband just making it all about him and ignoring your needs? If you’re not getting pleasure then it’s easy to understand why you wouldn’t be interested as much. Try to figure out what’s stopping you from enjoying it. You’re definitely not disgusting. And your job isn’t solely to please your husband. It’s to work together to please each other.

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That was cruel. I’d be more concerned with his lack of care for your feelings than his pleasure. He can fap.

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Libido ebbs and flows in marriage for a lot of reasons. Stress, pregnancy, kids, work, responsibilities, hormones, health etc. my question is is he meeting your needs emotionally? He sounds cold. If my emotional needs are not fulfilled I have no desire for any intimate connections.

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Sounds like he’s the problem :thinking:

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Maybe the issue isn’t YOU. Maybe the issue is him. I wouldn’t want to have sex with someone like that either. He’s not trying to turn you on or anything.

NEVER…NEVER NEVER insult a lady about her looks or weight!
Instead of hubby being a butthole he should’ve asked "what can I do to make it better "!

Have your iron levels checked

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I honestly think you misunderstood the context. If you’re not interested, not participating, etc. Im sure he meant it in that way. Not that you dont please him but that you “aren’t” bc you’re in a place where you’re not sexually available.
Which happens throughout a woman’s life for many reason’s. Id just talk with him about it and let him know it upset you bc you felt he meant it this way. Communication is important.

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It could be physical, hormonal, or chemical. A Doctor appointment is a great idea. After that, contact Patty Marmann … Pure Romance specialist & Nurse. She can answer any question.

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That sounds more like it’s a problem with him.

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Sexually pleasure doesn’t just come in physical form. Have you guys been fighting lately? Has something dramatic changed? Have you been doing something differently? I’m not justifying his actions. However I think any of us who have been in long term relationships or marriage have experienced a time when we weren’t attracted to our partner sexually, for numerous reasons. I think a conversation should be had. Not sure what the ob can do. Unless you have an infection and that’s why he’s unattracted. I feel like more should be focused on than his poor choice of words.

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I’d be gone so fast his head would spin.

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Spice it up but make sure you’re comfortable with how you’re spicing it up

Are you saying you have no desire for sex so you guys haven’t been having any or are you saying you have no desire but are giving it up reluctantly? That could be the difference between your man saying you never have sex so he’s not getting sexual satisfaction or him sensing you are not into it during sex and it’s hard for him to enjoy it. I think you need to communicate with him because he might now be blatantly saying he is not turned on by you at all.

You need to stop tying your worth to your performance. Sometimes our bodies don’t do what we want. He was just stating a fact, he didn’t call you disgusting or unattractive. You admit you haven’t been invested in sex. Breathe you’ll figure it out.

Are you on contraception? It kills the sex drive as it tricks your body into thinking its already pregnant.

Express to your husband how he made you feel. Men have a tendency to not think before they speak or to not consider their choice of words.

Life happens. We have jobs, spouses, children, school, responsibilities both in and out of the home. Sometimes there is a medical reason, other times it’s simply exhaustion. Definitely see a provider, to make sure that it isn’t something medically, and if it’s not, then have a conversation with your husband. A lot of times life drains us, other times you’re lacking something.

I’m sure at the beginning of your relationship there was more romance, flirting, dating, foreplay… sometimes that dies out. The sex is still expected without the intimacy. Most women are more intimate creatures where men are more sexual creatures (sometimes, not always).

If he wants you to please him, he needs to please you as well.

All you need to do is boot him out

If he was supportive partner he would be doing that supporting you not knocking you down

Twunt

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Sometimes desire is hormonal or relating to depression. But it can also be with him. Like have you been fighting, does he not help around the house. Because of you’re annoyed and tired at the end of the day, you’re not going to want to have sex. You’re a whole lot more willing if you’re not exhausted, choreplay is real. He came home and took the garbage out without asking, helped clean up dinner and warmed up your car. You feel appreciated, you had time to relax, so sex even if you’re not totally in the mood it sounds like an okay idea.

So, women get upset because men lie. Then we find a man who’s being honest about what he’s feeling and y’all still mad? Lol
TALK TO HIM!!!

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Less u have sex less u want it…u have bring dating back into your life with your husband…ask him out get baby sitter send sexy text during day to get him going go out eat mayb danceing go home light candle to set the mood go slow enjoy tell him what u want …try it works great

He told you the truth
I don’t always want sex and many mornings we don’t but I please my husband a almost every morning because I want to know he is fulfilled in the need.

I’m all for telling people exactly how you feel but there is a disrespectful way to do it in a respectful way to do it and that was disrespectful

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Just try to have sex more. He has needs also. It hurts to hear but if his needs are not getting met then he may need to leave the relationship.

I think you are getting vibes from him that he don’t care about you anymore and your depressed. Your not the reason you have changed he is

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If my man told me that I don’t think I’d ever have the desire to be with him again. . I’d think back on his behavior and how else he’s treated you and you’ll probably find that’s when you lost your libido. . Work on yourself! You do not need to go see someone because he isn’t fullfilled. That’s his problem.

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He fucckin someone else.
Let him kick rocks.
Decide how long you gonna put up with his shit then take control of your life and focus on making yourself happy.
Life’s short.
Don’t waste time with someone else’s bullshit.
:tongue: #DontGetMadIfImSmilingWithoutYou :tongue:

What a POS thing to say, and how he pushed those feelings onto you, wowza! I’d be out

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I’m not sure why people are getting so defensive. She’s asking for help, not on how you feel about him. I’ve literally said this myself, to my husband. It’s usually small moments. Everyone gets sexually frustrated…not everyone is programmed to “need” it though. I get so grumpy if it’s longer than a week! Its a love language, and he could simply not be feeling loved. I see nothing wrong with his statement. He could’ve not told her, cheated to please himself but he didn’t. Both people matter in a relationship. To the writer, It doesn’t make you disgusting. At all. I’ve gone through slumps myself. I’m usually stressed out…hormones off. Something! I hope you find answers! Take a bath, go on dates…Listen to your doctor even if it’s just rest. Take care of yourself first!

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Even if a hurricane of nymphomania suddenly knocks you over and you start meeting his needs daily you will NEVER forget how he made you feel with his insensitive remark, good luck with this one

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Sounds like you are handling it by making the appt. I don’t care what anyone says. Sex and physical love are important. And I’m of the opinion you take one for the team to keep from your partner from feeling rejected. It’s not about control. You love this man. He deserves sex. You’re going through something. You’re trying to get help but in the meantime…do it anyways even if you don’t feel like it every once in a while. Don’t you enjoy it once it gets going anyways?

Just know if you come at me for my opinion…it won’t end well. I’m literally here to tell the OP what I think…not debate anyone about it. :kissing_heart:

If your going through change of life. You could have physical issues,

Is he unsupportive, unhelpful or generally down on you? Does he leave his crap everywhere and make you in charge with no appreciation while he demands a hearty thank you for every action where he ‘helps’ you? Do you feel more like his mama than a spouse? Does he ignore your emotional needs? Is he selfish in bed? There could be a lot of reasons that have nothing to do with you! These are all very common reasons and where he made it about him and had no concern for you, I have a hunch that there are some reasons at play that have more to do with his attitude towards you than your lagging libido. Good luck.

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Ok so I get he was honest probably in an incorrect manner, but his honesty should have brought yours out. You have no desire to pleasure. Seek counseling for the both of you.

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Men say what they feel without considering how another might perceive it.

She said she has no desire, not at all.
If he’s not getting it ,”not at all”,for how long… If not at all then he’s not getting pleased sexually…. at all.
Most men are very simple in their thinking.
Woman are critical thinkers and there’s 10 answers to 1 question :joy:
Clear communication is key.

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I’ve been married well over 20 years…it happens! At least he’s talking to you!! He probably feels more connected with you when you two are intimate! Maybe try oral or tease him with a slow :raised_hand: job…something to let him know you still love him and find him attractive! Obviously only do what you’re comfortable with as well as him, but he’s probably feeling pretty bad about himself because he doesn’t think you want him.
Hopefully you can figure out the cause of your slump, but try not to dwell on it too much or you can make it worse.

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While I respect his honesty towards you, he could’ve addressed it a whole lot differently. I was with my daughters dad for 6.5 years, after a few years honestly my sex drive said “see ya later” and since then I’m not a very sexual person, I have just accepted that about me due to my medical issues! Definitely get some blood works done, because it could honestly be medical, stress, anxiety, or your body telling you that you need a break! Think about the home dynamic recently, all of it. Anything you see fit that may have an impact, work on it either with your husband or alone, but the main thing is getting to the bottom of it. Have y’all had any alone time? I mean more than a few hours when kids are in bed? A night out? A sitter so you guys have the day/night alone? What about a weekend away? If you guys aren’t connecting that could also be an issue!

Respect his honesty and talk to him. He is communicating with you and that’s awesome! You need to communicate back with him.
Try seeing a doctor or maybe relaxing and having some you time!
When life gets overwhelming we forget ourselves and our sexuality is a huge part of that.

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I would just tell him that even though you understand, that he could have said it differently, but I also agree that you should have spoken about how you are feeling to him. Open and honest communication is so important in a relationship and maybe he felt like you weren’t attracted to him anymore or something like that.

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Explain to him that you might have hormone imbalance which could affect sex life and you going to the drs to figure it out

First if all I don’t know how old you are. But, if your in your 40s it could be pre -menopause. Menopause lasts 10yrs. There are 3 phases. I would guess low hormones. The thyroid controls hormones and can cause low libido. Ask to have your thyroid checked and a Vitamin Panel. Low or deficient Vitamin levels can also cause this.
As far as what your husband said…I would ask why. What is the cause of his dissatisfaction. If he’s in his 40s as well or older he could be having the same problem. Men go thru a change as well. My husband did. But, my husband always said “it’s me, not you.” So idk. It can be confusing why we feel how we do when we’re first experiencing unknown territory. You both need to check your thyroid. Because he could be low testosterone as well. But , definitely ask why. God bless.

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Hey, you asked and he answered. It’s up to you to fix it. Talk to him, let him know what you’re feeling. Go see your doctor.

Well, I think it’s a good thing that he told you this. Don’t listen to these women who are saying “leave”. That’s stupid. They don’t understand, apparently, that men have a completely different brain than women do. For most men, being sexually frustrated is a problem for them. It’s not something they can just fix on their own. It’s a love language, that’s how men feel desired, that’s how they feel “relief”, etc. which is totally normal. In my opinion, keeping a man satisfied is honestly something that needs to be done to stay in a healthy and loving marriage. I get grumpy if I don’t get it more than 3 days. I realize though, that sometimes people get tired and aren’t in the mood. That’s why you have to play around a bit, so you can get there. If you truly have an issue, go see your doctor. None of this is bad. I can see why you’re upset. I’d be more thankful though that he told you there’s a problem, so you can both work on it together. Most of these comments makes me realize why relationships don’t last, the outlook is so negative. This isn’t, look for the positive, now you can fix it.

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That is a 2 way street… like I’m always shooting my husband down but bc im tired & overworked but he pushes n yep he definitely still does it for & I think in turn i do the same for him… Your husband has to want to get you off, make u feel sexy & comfortable…without that there’s nothing u can do for him

He’s an A$$. Maybe if he treated you like his queen you’d have a drive. Ugh. Don’t blame yourself. I don’t have a drive either but when my husband comes in off the road I make it count because he has a drive and I like to please him. Your hubby should try turning you on emotionally and you may feel differently

Omg I don’t ever want sex period I could never have it again and that would be just fine with me im a person who shows love and affection in different ways than six it may be because I was SA my entire childhood by multiple men but my husband of nearly 20 years has and always has been a very sexual person that is his main way of showing his live so I have learned to meet his needs as much as he meets mine in and out of the bedroom but he has never even after a 6month stance of no sex would he have ever said something so hurtful or so bluntly yes we have conversations concerning the situation but if he ever told me I didn’t satisfy him at all then I wouldn’t never be able to be comfortable with him again in a sexual manner he could have told you what he was feeling in a more constructive way and not in such a way as to hurt you and make you feel down on yourself he has the problem its called respect for your partner sometimes life gets bust and overwhelming and if your made to feel like ths is just another chore that needs done then it’s not going to be satisfying to either of you I say you go see your dr and see if something is wrong it could be new medicine stress lack of feeling wanted or appreciated it can be multiple things maybe try doing a day to pamper yourself make yourself up and feel pretty and focus on your self and then try making date nights and take a weekend trip no kids no work leave life and reality behind you for the weekend it will all be there when you get back sometimes we get so busy making a living that we often forget to luce all relationships hit rough patches its up to you and him to find a happy medium for you both and it takes a lot of sacrifice and compromise you both need to reflect back on to why you live one another and intimacy isn’t always about having sex lay in bed together naked and just hold each other get that closeness back and find what works for you sometimes we put kids to bed and just lay with his shirt off and me on his chest and stroking my hair whike telling me how beautiful and sexy iam and how lucky he is as same for me I will hold him and remind him hiw amazing he is as a husband and partner and lover and most 9f all how amazed iam at how he loves our kids and our grandbabies and how truly blessed we are to have him sometimes we just need to feel loved outside of the bedroom ill be sending good vibes your way try to sit him down and talk to him not at him tell him you realize something is off and you are doing your part by getting checked out but he needs to do his part as well and not be so hurtful and he needs to be patient and let you have a chance to fix it if that’s the issue he needs to learn other ways to show his love besides sexual lots of love :heart: your way if you are both committed to each other than this my dear is just another hurdle to jump over to the other side

He sounds sexually frustrated which is a valid feeling

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You did ask him a question and he did answer. Yes he could have worded it differently but I find men (most not all) have a hard time expressing themselves, especially if they are sexually frustrated.
I went through the exact same thing. Our relationship started off as having sex all the time, then I hit a spurt where I didn’t even want it at all. I was so stressed with work and my birth control caused me to gain and then lose weight so felt self-conscious that I got depressed and lost the desire to have any sexual contact or even initmancy. I talked to my partner and explained everything and we had a mass heart to heart. We decided to spice it up, be more spontaneous as well. I will admit I went through it again after giving birth but again, we talked… Main thing is communication.
Relationships are like building a house. Just because a light bulb goes out or needs a little fixing up, doesn’t mean you throw the house away and get a new one. Work through it as talking and understanding both sides makes you stronger.

I mean at least he was honest. :woman_shrugging:t2: And I think you are taking the right steps by going to see your doctor. It seems you want to figure out why you don’t have much of a sex drive and that says a lot about how much you care about your marriage. What he said was harsh but it was honest. Maybe some type of counseling could help you both as well. Good luck sweetie. :heart:

Before you go blaming yourself take a long hard look at your husband. Maybe he doesn’t turn you on anymore. What is he lacking? Maybe he’s coming up short. No pun intended :wink:

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What a d*ck thing to say! I’m sorry he said that to you. There’s being honest, but at least he could’ve been tactful about it

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Your man being a fuck will kill.your libido too

Sometimes ppl get tired of having sex. If he’s so insecure that he needs to shame u about not “meeting his needs” maybe he should meet his own dam needs. Ur not obligated to have sex with someone just bcuz ur married to them :pensive:

Sex is a part of the human condition. Things get complicated when any aspect of that gets off. He has valid feelings as do you. I would speak with my doctor and maybe pursue mental health to figure out the root of the problem. Involving your husband in all of this would be a great option also. Good luck!

Say what? That remark 1 was harsh, 2 sounds like he’s finding it elsewhere and 3 like F you dude. Smh…sorry but you got a husband I’d like to smack.

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Just talk to him and tell him wants going on.

I dont understand this… even if you have no desire … why arent you pleasing him? This seems a bit selfish… its not just about you. Get down on your knees and please your man if you dont want to take it
#coldhardtruth

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I hope you figure out what’s wrong!!:heart:
Aside from that no matter how long it has been since your partner has had sex it does not give them a right to be angry and lash out at you!
If this isn’t what you meant than disregard what I said!:grin:

People need to start normalizing going through the “not having or wanting sex 24/7” our hormones do this at times… its ok

If it was me, I’d tell him not to bother me for sex anymore

Unpopular opinion here….
NEVER let your man leave your house hungry or horny and he’ll always come back home to be satisfied. Js……

Two way street here need to talk to each other and try to make date night

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Tell him how it made you feel, talk to him about your sex drive. If you feel like there is something he can do to help it come along then let him know (more romance, foreplay etc). It’s not the end of the world. Many long term relationships hit this phase because of health issues, kids, life in general but the most important thing is not to allow your partner to become your roommate. Also for some of us sex is our love language so we feel kinda disconnected without it and it can cause us to feel forgotten, unloved or resentful. The bad part is some don’t know how to express that without sounding bitter. Good luck!

At least he’s talking to u and telling u what’s wrong most men don’t talk and communicate and end up straying away and getting it somewhere else.

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Talk to each other about what you like, what your turn-ons are. Try something new! Role play, dress up, sex toys & games, a new position, enhancing lube, lights on or off or candlelight (candles placed safely), in the shower or tub, on the kitchen table, in the backseat of the car, make out in the back of a movie theater, use whipped cream or chocolate or feathers, watch a sexy movie or soft porn, tie each other up, do everything EXCEPT intercourse once in a while, use lotion or massage oils to give each other massages/rub downs—you get massaged first. Kidnap him on his lunch break for sex, or spend the night in a hotel—preferably with a hot tub/spa to enjoy for sexy time with no responsibilities.

Get marital and/or sex counseling if nothing works.

What can you do to make yourself feel sexy? Bath with scented oils, candles & wine? Maybe a new hairdo, hair color or get hair extensions, a massage, facial, mani-pedi, sexy undergarments or outer clothes, get boudoir photos taken. And try a class doing something physical with your body—yoga, Tai chi, Zumba, swimming—whatever sounds most appealing, even theater/acting classes to help you be more expressive and comfortable with your body. Interacting with someone is no fun when there’s no response (can you “fake it ‘til you make it?”). Taking ballroom dance with my hubs almost saved my marriage, so try that to bring back the romance. Sometimes when people complain it’s really about themselves. Is he OK or might he need help too?

Try therapy to rebuild your self esteem, learn to stand up for yourself, fight back fair, communicate better, build yourself up so you feel good about yourself with or without a man, and be secure in your worth no matter what anyone says to you.

Definitely keep the doctor appointment. Check for libido dampening medications, hormone levels, depression screening, circulation problems, menopausal or peri menopausal issues, among other things, and maybe get a prescription for something to help. I understand Viagra can help women too.

Tell hubs what you’re doing to be proactive to get you both happier in the sack, then ask what he plans to do to help. Get him to find a new type of foreplay to try on you. Have him write you sexy notes or texts during the day. Have him look into books of romantic poetry or ask women friends so he doesn’t write stuff like “I have a big dick,” and ask him to be suggestive “I’m thinking of you” or “Guess what I love about your body?” or “The smell of your perfume makes me weak” vs. obvious such as “I want to bang you.” Ask him what he can think of to make you feel sexy. Have him pick out sexy things for you and dress you in them. Have him do a strip tease for you.

I think there’s lots of ways to bring back the magic, so have fun trying them all! Even if some just make you laugh, that’s a win.

I don’t care what anybody says, that’s a fucked up way for him to tell you that.

Aweful thing to say.

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A trip to the adult toy store would cure that. Get the pink pussy pills and drink lots of water. For 3 days anything and everything will have you ready to go

Tell him to go down on you then he see after what happens

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Idk buy most ment get pleasure pleasing because when they make a women explode the man gets 10 times folds I don’t be in the mood too but once he throws me on the bed take my panties off and put his tongue in there my mood changes I tell him to stop but he don’t and that’s it I’m in another world

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Honestly, it is better that he is communicating with you and not hiding how he feels as much as it hurts to hear it… Is your mental health in check? If not take some time for you, take some time together i.e date night, refresh as it has been a pretty crazy two years.

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He is cheating on u or your not having sex at all and he’s extremely frustrated

So on the positive note, I know it can sometimes hurt to hear but atleast he was trying to communicate with you about it. Your hormones might be out of whack. Get your thyroid checked.

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Well that’s kind of a rough way to put it on his end it is a two way street are you getting pleased when you are sexual if not that can make you lose your desire for it and may be his issue as well if he notices you arnt pleased

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9 times out of 10 if your man is telling you this he is already doing something that is harmful/hurtful to your relationship.

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Maybe he’s attracted to someone else ? This usually happens. But I’m the same ever since I had kids … I’m just constantly tired and cbf having sex. But my partner is so supportive about it

You’re NOT disgusting. HE IS. that’s beyond fucked up to tell someone you love and adore. Anyway bring the dating spirit back if you want to feel for each other. Sex sometimes can get complicated

I lost my desire for sex when the Dr put me on Lithium. Mind drugs can inhibit your sex drive. Or could be another physical problem. I hope you get some answers from your doctor.

So is he attempting to do any foreplay, and sensual kissing/touching or does he think you are the only problem? Shit gets boring when women are doing all the work

Well you are doing what you need to do but I am tired of women feeling like we owe our partners something and we are solely responsible if things are good or bad. I would talk to him and let him know that that kind of comment doesn’t exactly rev your engine and ask him what he “wants”- and take whatever is said with a grain of salt. Men can act like such babies but treat us like crap because they didn’t get exactly what they want. So I personally would be mad and upset and I would make him explain why that would be ok and how would he feel if you said that to him. If he can’t be an adult and work with you about this then plan on counseling soon because marriage is good times and bad and we women have lots more hormones and stress that we deal with on a daily and we can’t just shut it off and compartmentalize because of sex it’s not easy for everyone. I mean good grief he can’t deal with this than how would he act if you were ill or something major happened and you couldn’t have sex for a bit? His statement is bullshit - rude and mean and I would let him know.

Just ask him what he wants to do sexually maybe he is just a freak in the bed. it’s a called communication that helps in relationships​:man_shrugging:t6::man_facepalming:t6::man_facepalming:t6:

He was honest now check for diabetes

Oh well , he’ll survive.

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I think he sounds like a dickhead. I understand he’s frustrated and yes hes communicating, but there’s another way to say or bring up things like that. No wonder you’re not in the mood ever, specially if your married to an asshole like that.

How old are you? I ask because I’m 47 and going thru the same. It’s more than likely hormonal unless there are major issues in yiur marriage.

You shouldn’t feel any type of way, but he should be ashamed of himself for even saying that! It’s his job to be understanding and supportive in your time of need, I’m so sorry and I hope that your doctor is able to help you figure things out. But on a side note I’m not sure of your age but it could very well be menopause.

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So then, it’s okay for you to be telling US that you have no desire, yet do it anyway… But you are mad because he was honest and told YOU he wasn’t being pleased?? How is that fair? Maybe he senses that you aren’t into it, and he is letting you know he’s aware. If you are just laying there for him, of course it’s not going to be pleasing for him…
I’ve been with my guy for 12 yrs… Still can’t get enough of him… Maybe he’s just not the one for you.

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See your Dr find out if there is something wrong. We don’t know your husband so we don’t know how he meant what he said. “Like at all” kind of makes me wonder if it’s not just sexually. Talk with your husband and tell him you are going to see a Dr and find out why this is happening. He is married to you, so he should be expected to support you in anything including an issue with your sex drive.

Talk to him. HOW do you not please him sexually? Seeing with your ob and getting to the root of your lack of desire is good. Seeing where the disconnect with him and figuring it out needs to happen as well.

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