Background we have 3 under 4 in a 2 bedroom house. We have bunks in one room, a toddler bed and bassinet in our room. The 4 and 2 year old share the room with bunks. I have zero issues getting our two year old down. She will fall asleep wherever we place them. But the four year old fights it every night. She sneaks, screams, hides, cries at the top of her lungs, slams doors, threatens to wake the baby or the two year old, it’s an endless battle and my husband and I are struggling to keep our patience and not yell or result to spanking (which doesn’t work anyways) last night was so bad she battled til almost midnight. We really do know what to do. We have a great routine that is the same every night dinner, bath, brush teeth, books, then daddy snuggles for sometimes up to a half hour. We are so tired and at a loss. We never have any other real struggles except bedtime. We really do not want to result to melatonin or other sleep meds. Advice?
Help a mama out and respond anonymously on our forum. I need advice regarding sleep struggles with my 4 year old
Melatonin for a little while until the routine sleep time sticks! The lavender bubbles in the bath and the lavender lotions are helpful too.
Put the 4 year old in a room by herself and the others in the other room. She may want “her” own space. I would set up a spot in your room that’s for her. Just a suggestion
Also, maybe let her stay up a little while longer, like 30 minutes, for extra one on one time.
Welcome to parenthood? There is no right answer. It’s all trial and error. Try things until you find the thing that works for you and do it.
Melatonin is a harmless way to help them sleep. But… it doesn’t always work.
Maybe she has some separation anxiety, can you let her sleep in the toddler bed in your room? Perhaps he/she just wants to be close to you.
Does she still take naps?? If so, try to skip them!
How about mommy snuggles? See if that change helps.
What we do is put the kids to sleep one by one. The hardest first. I’ll close the door and the lights will be off. Once she’s asleep I put my other baby in on the bottom bunk. At 5, if my daughter cries, I let her. She’s not a baby anymore and she knows bedtime is 8pm.
Both of my kids sleep 8-7 (since birth) and have never done melatonin or anything like that. Consistency is key. Always in bed at the same time.
Skip the naps during the day and maybe a night light and maybe if you lay in bed with her with the lights off for 5 or 10 minutes maybe she’ll fall asleep
scared of dark? try night light ? it won’t hurt
Have you had your little one assessed for maybe asd / adhd ?
I have 3 . My 11yr old and 4yr old are exactly the same my 11yr old now sleeps great . 4yr old is on bio melatonin and is still struggling with sleep . He wakes us 4/5x during the night and wakes at 5am every morning he hasn’t napped since he was 10months old
Fresh air if possible and as much activity as possible help wear her out.
Lay with them until they fall asleep.
Maybe a play place after supper before bed couple times a week? Or park? Not sure the weather where you are. Just let her run and get tired! Melatonin is not the best for kids. Mom was giving my oldest ( now 6 ) melatonin when she was 2 and she had horrible night terrors. Good luck !
Honestly i brought mine to bed with me if there was an issue, im single mom and we had to sleep in same bed for awhile for space reasons anyway. Ya i know they say not to do that now that was 15 yrs ago. My kids are very grown up, independent. Maybe lay down with till she asleep is good idea🤔. All kids are diff what wks for my kids may not be ideal for another its really trial/error being a parent
You can do melatonin its all natural
Have her checked for autism spectrum disorder or ADHD.
My 4 yr old son same way.
I finally broke down spoke too his new pedi told her what’s going on.
She told me If melatonin is the only way use it
Unfortunately we have too cause I refuse putting him on adhd pills until he’s 13 yrs old.
eliminate processed foods, no caffeine, no fast food, get into a routine, short nap in afternoons, regular bedtime. my kids slept better at night if they took a nap in the afternoons. dark bedroom, shut the door.
She may be afraid of the night talk to her about it and I’m sorry melatonin is approved by the pediatrician I would use it for a while we did it through school and then would lighten up in the summer months but it is ridiculous that she is controlling the situation you need to take control find out for the reason why she doesn’t want to go to sleep and if it’s behavioral then there needs to be to put this plan with rewards if it’s that she’s scared of the dark or her body just doesn’t wind down then melatonin
You stress upon them that it’s not a wake up time and she has to remain quiet and in bed. If not pallet her up, no tv in the living room so she doesn’t disturb anyone else
Sit by here bed until she falls asleep and each night move closer to the door when you sit. She sees you and knows your there but the is still distant. No talking allowed though
Honestly, don’t let people convince you it’s better your kid struggle and not sleep well then it is for them to have melatonin. First of all, it’s not a sleeping pill or medication… melatonin is naturally already in your body. That’s what helps us fall asleep. Some peoples bodies don’t release enough like it should for some reason and this is the results. I know a lot of people firsthand who use it for their children and it’s a god sent. Pediatricians wouldn’t be recommending if it was horrible or dangerous like people are trying to say it is. My nephews are on the spectrum and bedtime has always been a struggle for them as well, the moment they started getting melatonin, the entire house felt better. Parents were finally getting rest and so are the kids. At the end of the day, kids need sleep so it isn’t any good if they’re lacking because they wanna fight it. They take one at the same time every night before bed and within 20 minutes of laying and relaxing in bed, they’re knocked for the night. I’m totally all for trying everything else first because I’d be the same way, but I just wanted to reassure you that you’re not a bad mom IF you chose to do melatonin.
Idk if you’d want to or if it would even help, but would it help at all to let her take some toys to bed? Like maybe she’s just not tired so if she wanted to sit quietly in her bed and play that’s ok as long as she stays in bed? Idk how that would work with her sibling sleeping in the same room but I know my daughter does that some nights, she doesn’t wanna go to sleep so I let her play quiet with her toys in bed til she falls asleep but her sisters aren’t light sleepers so no one hears anything at all.
Is she maybe doing it for attention? She sees that she can get stuff when she behaves that way? I don’t know I’m just throwing out ideas here.
With my almost 3 year old we never had issues with her fighting sleep ever until several months ago. She had always slept in her own bed on her own. Scream, cry, pitches unholy fits about going to sleep for a nap and bedtime. Same thing, excellent routine, she just fights it with everything in her. We’ve resorted to having her sleep in our bed where she does great. We have a newborn that shares her room with her and instead of both babies screaming from waking each other up we gave in to her sleeping in our bed. You got to pick your battles, and Im not fighting this one with her.
I stop tv and all electronics a few hours before bed. My son also would be allowed one stuffed animal or toy to take to bed. As long and he stayed quiet and in bed. We eventually had to use melatonin because he’s add and adhd.
Give her kids melatonin. It’s not going to hurt her. Why fight and struggle every night when it’s that easy to just give her a little chewable pill. It will help her rest better which might help her attitude.
Melatonin talk to pediatrician 
Honestly change your daily routine first and see if that makes anything better. My 4 year old we let her stay up an hour later than her sisters and she gets quiet time by herself to play and we stopped making her take naps when she was 3
Edit to add: she is now our easiest kid to put to bed
Is she still taking an afternoon nap? That needs to be cut out if so. Maybe more exercise to tire her out. No electronics an hour before bed. Start a bedtime routine. Bath, bedtime books read and then tuck her in. She may be acting out because of lack of one on one time.
Mmmm. I had to use melatonin gummies for my 3 year old. She just cannot or will not wind down and go to sleep. I really recommend trying it out. It has been such a blessing. Kids do not realize that they NEED sleep. Best of Luck
Melatonin made mine have horrible/strange dreams. No tv, iPad, computer or light stimulation after 4:00. Processed foods and colored dyes in food are insanely horrible for kids. Red dye and yellow dye can cause hyperactivity. Check with your pediatrician for answers
Maybe try positive reinforcement/ bribery. I’m not beyond it. Maybe a sticker chart to show whether she went to bed without a fight and then there is a prize at the end of the week or something. Some kids do better with positivity vs punishment.
Start giving her Melatonin at night . My granddaughter pediatrician recommended it for her . She is 18 now and still takes it to sleep . She doesn’t produce natural melatonin. Discuss it with your pediatrician and what strength to give her
Have you tried talking to them to find out what it is that they dont like about bed time. My now 4 year old went through this not as extreme. When I finally asked him why he wouldnt sleep he said because he didnt wsnt to dream. Because when he dreamed and woke up the things in his dream were gone he wanted to either have the things in his dream or outside his dream not both.
Melatonin does not hurt the child. It actually helps get them on a sleep schedule!! I was against this also, with my grandkids, but then I seen after awhile, they were on a schedule and didn’t need the sleep aid. The kids no longer fought, bed time, wasn’t a nightmare anymore, for the adult, or for the child. Melatonin isn’t a horrible thing, unless, it is abused!! Parents, that abuse it, tick me off!!
My 11 year old has always been like that. We tried a lot of things but here’s what finally worked for us. I type ‘sleep music’ into my YouTube on my phone and lay down with her while she shuts down. We read one book then no more talking. I stay with her til she’s completely out. It gets so much harder when she’s overstimulated and fighting sleep. Good luck. It’s so hard.
We were having this issue too. The dr recommend melatonin for my then 3 year old. I wasn’t ready to go that route yet but after 2 months of it I went out and bought the mommy’s bliss sleep gummies with melatonin for her and it’s been AMAZING! I wish I would have tried it with her earlier.
My son couldn’t use melatonin because it actually gave him night terrors so he just had to get older. He’s 5 1/2 now and just started going to sleep on his own when told to.
Sleep music is a game changer or rain sounds. I had to use melatonin for a little bit with my daughter, but it was just temporary for a few weeks I used it and it just helped her get on a schedule.
have you really talking to the 4 yr old to why she is acting this way??? Before all of this starts. Maybe she needs a light on. Extra time with you But something is going on. And please don’t give her anything to sleep
Even negative attention is attention. She shares you all day with younger siblings, she’s probably just worked out that she gets yours and daddy’s attention all to herself for hours if she doesn’t go to bed. Without saying anything at all or engaging in any antics or negotiations just pick her up, give her a quick cuddle while you’re walking and tuck her back into bed say “goodnight, its time to sleep now” and leave the room, without saying /doing anything else! Repeat everytime she gets out of bed, do not lose your cool or react, she will up the scale with screaming etc but stick to the method and within a week it will be back to a stress free bedtime routine. If she wakes up the younger ones ignore her while you deal with them, she has already used it as a threat against you, so she knows exactly what she’s doing, dont give her that hold over you. You have to stick to it, give in once and she will know she can break you. 
Does she get outside time she might not be tired enough take her for walks bike riding wake her up in the morning earlier than others have you time she might be wanting one on one time
Melatonin! Just do it.
She’s 4. She understands when you explain things to her. Take away the sugar and caffeine and electronics. Explain that if she throws a fit she will lose the privilege of something she enjoys - (dessert, play time, tv, friends, etc) for 24 hours. Melatonin is harmless and if it works use it. She is disrupting your entire house. Take control. It may take a couple of days to find what she values and her testing you - but she will get it. Let her control this and it just gets worse.
Maybe she has a fear of the top bunk if she’s up there.
They make a melatonin spray that you spray on the pillow. I’ve read in other mom groups it works really well.
My chiropractor gave us some essential oils to rub on the bottoms of the kiddos feet to help them relax for bed. We also use night lights that project onto the ceiling.
Alot of Dr’s don’t like melatonin forever. Mostly to begin a habit.
It’s natural but taken for too long, it can mess up your own levels.
That said, finding out why can help resolve it. Maybe it’s night terrors? Definitely have her sleep tested if possible. Maybe a child psychologist?
She can get through this.
Melatonin. White noise. Lavender.
Lemme just say, melatonin isn’t bad at all if you decide to go that route. I’ma be honest, I take it myself an sleep so mfkin good…
Warm milk helped my son before we found melatonin. A routine of warm milk before bed every night. My daughter on the other hand, haha, sounds just like yours. For the first 2 years of her life she slept 4 hours a day. Yes! A day! I didn’t want to give her melatonin because it was still kind of new to us plus she was still so young. The doctors told me to put her in her room and let her cry it out even though they were told repeatedly that she doesn’t stop crying to the point of hyperventilation and throwing up. Needless to say, that was the last time we went to that office. We had to start laying with her and pretending to go to sleep until she fell asleep. Now I know that’s not ideal for many parents but when you are literally at wits end you do what you have to. She just turned 4. She takes a 1 MG melatonin gummy at night 30 minutes before bed and sleeps through the entire night rested and ready to go the next morning.
I’d take her out, just her, for like a slice of pizza and just calmly ask her why she doesn’t like to go to bed at bedtime and ask what could change that would make it easier for her. She’s old enough to communicate as long as you set the conversation up for success from the beginning
She’s 4 my son has this problem and with a new baby I’m hoping things get better
Just make her excited to go to sleep I usually tell mine that we have a great day planned the next morning once the sun comes up another trick is when I lay down with her for snuggles I let her know I’m turning off the lights but to not close her eyes lol it works like magic I do not suggest melatonin
Sleepytime tea and mommy and daddy snuggles alone for 30 minutes. But melatonin is safe it just promotes what your brain already makes. Good luck you definitely have your hands full 
My daughter was the same way until i got melatonin for her. I was so againt it until i was so tired. I gave her 1/4 of pill for a week and now she goes to bed with no problem. She has no underlying problems, she just hates sleep. Get her tired duri g the day, or wake her up early as in 6 am and her sleep is gonna regulate by itself. Maybe try speaking to her pediatrician about it.
I do have to take her to bed and be withher till she fall asleep 10 min top. Before she wouldn’t even stay in bed with me. I had to hold her until she fall asleep fighting me.
Lay down in her bed at night and look around the room with the lighting she has. Can you see anything that looks at all scary? My son’s room was wood paneling, I battled every night, my mum suggested the above and I realised the reason my son wouldn’t stay in his bed was the wood knots in the panelling looked like eyes looking at him. We put some of his artwork over them and he happily went to bed
Tart cherry juice all natural! Look it up online but I can say it does work
We went threw the same with my son and Melatonin was a life saver. We don’t give it every night 3 times a week and the other days he falls right to sleep
Just brain storming. So, with so many littles, I would ask, does she get daily undivided attention from you? Does she still nap during the day? Does she get enough physical activity during the day. Melatonin isn’t a sleep aid, it is more a supplement for something our bodies already produce. But, first, I would make sure that those “boxes” are checked. Maybe try moving her a half hour later than her siblings because "she is a big girl."and reading with just her before bedtime. Tell her that she has to be a big girl or it won’t stay that way. It seems it may be an attention or lack of feeling in control kind of thing. Ultimately, she has to feel calm and make the decision herself. Kids will take any attention (even negative) It seems like that may be what she is after.
Bathe in lavender scented wash …
Is this kiddo taking a nap during the day? How long and at what time? 4 was the age we had to pay attention to weening off naps because it resulted in exactly what your explaining
What are her daily activities like? Maybe she has too much energy left by bedtime, and doesn’t know how to process that so it results in lashing out? I’d try to get her as active as possible during the day and see if tiring her out naturally helps at all. If it doesn’t I’d start with the doctor and make sure it isn’t her body. If it isn’t her body I’d move onto checking her mental health and make sure it isn’t a symptom of something deeper. If it is insomnia it could be any number of physical or mental issues. Many of them not a big deal too so hopefully you can easily help her.
Oh, and on the melatonin issue be careful. Talk to the doctor, and make sure you know all the risks. It gave me horrible night tremors as a child. Plus you don’t want to give her something she may not need, especially if it’s a symptom.
My son used to do this. We put a humidifier in his room that you could add essential oils to. I used to out Lavendar in it and out he went.
We struggled for a while and we ended up doing chores later in the evening so she could run around etc and burn off all the extra energy.
At times we do need to do melatonin in case she is over stimulated and can’t settle. Would a later bed time work?
I know my daughter is one that does not do well if she goes to bed early.
Maybe do something that’ll burn her energy right before bed? I’ve seen people do “just dance” or “workouts” to make their kids tired. Also zarbees has a soothing sleep spray. It’s not melatonin but a lavender smell that soothes. It didn’t work on my kid but it did work on me lol. Good luck!
We put all her stuffed animals to bed before she goes to bed. But ya I agree with a lot of the moms who are saying to give her incentive. Mine can’t have my phone to watch kid YouTube or play a game if she doesn’t go to sleep. Also I tell her mommy is so tired and needs to go to sleep very badly but I can’t until you do so please be nice to mommy and go to sleep so mommy can sleep too. Good luck. 
My daughter is like that when she doesn’t get enough of her energy out. Today I jogged with her while she rode her bike around the block a few times, it’s cold here (mid 40s) so she didn’t wanna be outside long but she needs her outside time to burn off her energy. 
maybe focus on more active playtime prior to dinner and the end of the day routine to bedtime
Our 4 year old has sensory issues and we were recommended melatonin by his dr and PT.
Call Supper Nanny
I’m sure Jo Jo
Can help you
Just do the melatonin…
It helps get them on a great sleep schedule within a month.
After dinner have a good play session, & during a warm bath give a gummy melatonin, then do your reading & snuggles & she’ll be asleep, no fighting. Just peaceful sleep.
Once the routine is in place, back off the melatonin gradually.
It truly works to get their sleep regulated & helps you keep your cool
Win-win…
Make sure she’s doing enough physical activities during the day to tire her out. Give her half an hour-1 hour longer up than the littler ones so she has some much needed 1 to 1 attention (the oldest craves it as usually the littler ones get a lot more - as being so young they need it).
And something that really works with my 4 and 5 year olds, a camera baby monitor. Yes, a baby monitor, I set it up in the bedroom when the 1 year old moved in, you can hear and see everything, so as soon as one is messing about I press the mic button and tell them to go to sleep. If you run everytime she cries or shouts she’s going to she’s getting the attention she desires. Press the mic say be quiet. Goodnight and leave her. She might wake the 2 year old the first couple nights, that’s ok, go into the room soothe the 2 year old, ignore her, any attention you give to her over it will encourage her more, she then knows its working to get more attention. Make a reward chart, every night she goes to bed good give her a point, when it’s full let her spend her points on a treat. We currently have 7 in 1 room (ages 1, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9 and 10)
Try to set a solid bed time routine and be consistent each night. It will take some time to get into the groove of things but she will benefit from it immensely. When she has an idea of what to expect each night it will be easier for her to settle and understand that certain things tied into the evening routine mean that its bed time. With my 2 year old we keep him on the same schedule each day and it has worked so well for us! He has come to know certain activities mean it’s getting closer to bed time and when the time comes he goes down so easily. Best of luck to you! You got this 
I know people are saying to use it but I personally do not recommend melatonin on a regular basis, especially with a child so young as it can effect their sleep in negative ways and effect them long term. Maybe try more natural sleep aids, like warm milk or tea unless your doctor recommends something different. also see if maybe she needs more activities during the day to tire her out by the time night time comes.
maybe you should let her just scream until she goes to sleep. Don’t say a word to her. Don’t pet her or try to console her. Just let her scream it out until she tired herself out. After about a week she will realize she is not upsetting anyone and start going to sleep. You have to have strong nerves to do this, but it will work.
I am having some issues with my almost 2 year old. It can take her hours to fall asleep at night. And then she wakes at 4 am and stays up until 6am
Melatonin for the win