First of all I don’t need to hit ur kids to get them to listen. Second ur kids have seen enough violence why in the hell would u put them through more violence by hitting them. U need to get them into therapy
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I would take everything out of the room except clothes and their bed
You are the parent they are the children don’t give up hope seems like your allowing this behavior for so long and they are adapt to it bag it all up give them books to read no tv radio games toys nothing
I agree with bagging stuff up n taking it somewhere. ( maybe your friend). I did that more than a few times. Ask them once to pick stuff up. No second chances. No yelling, just quiet voices. Calm. The more calm you are the easier they will see how much better it is. Sit down with them to make a chore chart. Give them things they can do to help you. Even at 5 my kids helped me with laundry n cooking n making beds. I would sit down and have a frank talk. Ask… Are you happy here? If not why not… we all need to help each other. That’s what a family does. How about every day at dinner you tell me 1 good thing n 1 bad thing that happened. And we will talk about it. Try n do new fun things. A day at the park complete with picnic. Doesn’t have to cost money. One other thing. It sounds like there is a lot of anger. Maybe figure out a way to let that anger out.
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Sorry to find out where they’re behaving like that everything away from them take everything out of the room
I meant try to find out why they’re behaving like that
I would take away everything, electronics, toys, TV, etc and make them earn it back one thing at a time. If they earn items back and start acting disrespectful take it all away again and make them start over earning it all back. They can earn items back by doing their chores and being respectful. Make them a chore chart of the things you expect them to do each day. Each day they have to clean up after themselves, one day they have to take out the trash, one day they have to sweep the floors, etc.
All you have to provide is a bed and clothes and food. If they want to show out take everything away from them. Since the caseworker knows everything then tell her to come over and take care of them for a day and see their behavior. Record them and keep photos of what they do to protect yourself. We love our children but I be dam if I tolerate anybody treating me that way kid or no kid.
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He shouldn’t have or do anything until he cleans it
I would highly suggest therapy for them. Smearing feces is not a typical response to not getting their way. Your kids have experienced trauma, some you may not even be aware of. You need to get to the bottom of it asap.
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HONESTLY they need a real spanking! I dealt with CPS top due to a DV situation but trust me I spanked my child! There is a difference in abuse and discipline! Your children need discipline NOW!
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Are they neurotypical?
I’m sorry mama, this sounds hard. I would suggest therapy for the kids ASAP. Talk to their doctor as well, they should have support services available.
I would legit look into boot camps for the kids if all else fails because sometimes you need drastic intervention. Doctor first though because the smearing feces is another issue that a professional needs to address. Best of luck mama 
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Basically put it this way. YOU discipline your children, or a Correctional officer will! If they won’t respect you , they surely won’t grow up respecting anyone else.
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Has your social worker helped you with tools to discipline and teach your children how to live without violence and threats? It would be helpful for you to get some guidance on how to parent children and intervention to stop this cycle of disrespect and violence from your children. Hugs mama
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Why do they have electronics if they haven’t earned them? Take it away.
Then, try a chore chart. Google has varieties…
And fir the love of all things holy, THERAPY. For all of you.
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I think all moms struggle with this, not just you. I just know that the next time I come into our dining room it’s not going to look anything like this today and I will have to start all over.
Tell them you’re not disciplining them any more and you’re calling social services to come and get them. And do it!
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If you can afford it, I’d get them both into therapy. Yourself as well if you’re not already going.
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Throw all their stuff away.(or put in the garage) Bet they’ll clean it next time.
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I detest the way everyone yells therapy these days. These kids are playing up because they know you’re not supposed to punish them. You let this continue and you will have teenagers who will end up in jail
You smack those bottoms soundly and watch that behaviour improve
Then you do the star charts , rewards etc and hopefully the lesson will be learned and no further smacking will be required .
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Take all their stuff away
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Just take everything out so they can respect their rooms and it sounds like they are struggling emotionally so they are taking it out on you. All I can suggest is maybe try explaining to then that it is not their fault or mummy’s fault and we have to work together
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If they choose not to pick up their mess, put their belongings, excluding essentials in a trash bag and out of reach. Make them earn everything back by contributing to household chores. Toys and electronics are privileges, not necessities. The faster they learn that, the better. You do not need to provide them with anything other than essentials. As for the child defecating and smearing it on the walls, I’d give him paper towels and cleaning supplies. They made the mess, they can clean it up. I’d also have them evaluated. That is not typical behavior at all. Family counseling would probably be highly beneficial.
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Counselling for them. They have obviously been affected by the domestic dispute as much as you are. Children don’t know how to express their emotions like adults
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That’s a. Sign. Of. Child. Malested.
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Throw their stuff in the trash!!! They’ll learn!! That xbox, gone!! OORRRR force them to donate it, put that stuff on FB marketplace and sell/donate it right in front of them.
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Take everything out of their rooms except bed and dresser/clothes. Keep it put away where they cannot access it. Have them earn things back one at a time. Spanking is not abuse, I spanked my child once for something she did and she has not done it since. She is 4 now. My 6 yr old… a while different story. However, he was diagnosed at age 4 with ADHD, OCD, ODD and bipolar. He has been medicated since that time. He still has his moments but it’s gotten alot better. Maybe take them to their doctor and discuss the behaviors that have been happening and see what they think?
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Less stuff means less stuff to destroy. Take away everything from their room, and anything extraneous from anywhere else in the house.
Their behavior may not improve. But at least things won’t look so terrible.
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Put their stuff in a box marked for goodwill. They don’t straighten up give their stuff to kids who would appreciate it. OR sell it on Ebay
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If the have electronics, turn the WiFi off! My mom has this same issue with my siblings. Shut the WiFi off and turn the phones off. Stand your ground!
Much love!
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Throw everything away that’s on the floor at the end of the day
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Or better yet make THEM throw it away
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Take the electronics etc away for more then a day or even in tell you see some changes my children did this too when I left my ex … it’s them letting you know they are not ok with the past.
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You have an 8 EIGHT YEAR OLD drawing on walls with shit???
Id smack the shit out of them and tell them to go ahead and tell on you because if they do they will more than likely get taken and id tell them that also! Its either listen, get your ass smacked, and or get taken and put in another home with someone who you will HAVE to listen to.
Don’t make the bedroom fun. Pack the things away, give only a few items. If they can’t pack up then take them away to.
My 6 year old has only her barbie an barbie house things. (She has to pack them away before bed). Some days she does it without asking.
One of her toy boxes are in my room until I sort it (clutter toys I found she didn’t really play with but would just throw out her toybox.
An her other toy box in her room she barely touches.
She makes her bed in the mornings aswell. Gives her that bit of responsibility (it’s not perfect but attempted of course).
When they don’t listen, tell them to go to their rooms.
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Women if you have an eight year old drawing on walls with SHIT, you all need counseling. And you need to learn to be a mom without hitting. You don’t have to hit kids to discipline them!!! Take small pad locks and put it through every damn electric device they have, even the TVs!!! You simply put the small pad locks through the holes at the end of the cord. Then they cant plug in devices. Do it to all their chargers as well. I have never had to hit my kids to get them to act right. Something seriously wrong in this house. Therapy for ALL STARTING WITH YOU!!!
My kids don’t listen either. I ground my kids, i take things away, they don’t listen i put them on the couch and tell them they are not getting nth. They do bad things like drawing on walls with stuff best believe they are cleaning it up. I agree with Melinda Herrick bag their stuff up tell them u are getting trash bag and their stuff is going to the trash i do that to my kids they yell no and they start cleaning. I hate it how social workers try to tell parents they can’t discipline their kids thats how kids these days are so rude, mouthy, think they can do whatever, bully other kids. I wish it wad like when i was younger cops told my parents to beat my a** but don’t leave marks. The reason why my kids do that to me is cause of their dad he don’t discipline them, he bribes them with things so therefore it makes it hard on me and 99.99 percent of time i deal with them on my own.
Give them so long to clean and tell them that whatever is still not put away at the end of that time goes in a trash bag then do so. They don’t do there chores throughout the rest of the house take away TV and games, they can read a book. It may not work immediately but following through from the first time will give you results. Now your son painting the wall with poop- make him clean it all and then the rest of the bathroom
I recommend counseling especially if they were subjected to domestic violence.
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Physical “punishment” should never be the only thing you can think to do. Ground them, take all electronics away including tv time, time out, take away sweets/deserts.
Look into what trauma does to kids. If they have witnessed anything this may contribute to behaviours. Especially your youngest. I left my ex husband after finding out about abuse against our kids. My youngest was that age, and it’s been hard. He is now 13 and behaviours are still there. Trauma can do funny rings to a child’s brain. Sadly.
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When my boys were younger I only let them play with their toys in their room or outside…
Once a month I would have them one at a time to pick up everything that belonged to them…Once they both said everything was done, I said now go back and double check cause I’m going in to deep clean and what ever is broken , under the bed or any where goes to the trash
Cause it must belong to people who does not live here…
I truly threw things away a couple of times.
But it made them realize I was not giving in
There is something seriously wrong if an 8 yr old smears poop on the wall. Those kids need therapy. You need parenting classes to help you learn appropriate discipline and how to cope.
They need therapy !!!
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I would have put the 8 yo in the bathroom with some rags & held the door shut until he cleaned it up. As for their rooms, start over. Take everything out & box it up. Leave 3 days worth of clothing, sheets blankets & pillows. Leave each kid 1 toy (not their favorite) as they help around the house, reward with one item. I said 3 days worth of clothing so they could wear 1 while they wash 2 days worth. Also, I think the kids need counseling. They need to learn how to show their feelings without attacking you or rubbing feces on the wall.
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First bag up everything in their room fun! Leaving the things needed to live with. Second take all electronics and hide your remotes to your TV etc. Third counselors for both separate ones so they have their own person. You make their lives as simplistic as possible and guarantee you will see change and pray pray pray!
They need a stern hand and I don’t know what state you live in but I had a social worker with the department of social services tell me in the right way spanking on the behind is ok just not when you’re angry and as a last resort . I learned the hard way with my son and if you don’t get control of this behavior now it will only get worse later.
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No reason not to spank. DDS needs to see that is what is wrong with kids today and why they deal with them later in life.
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Has he seen the way you have been Treated by a man?
Sounds like he thinks this is how you should he treated 
I would make him clean any messes in the bathroom and he doesn’t come out of there untill it’s done because that is disgusting, and I would remove all technology permanently until they can act old enough and responsible enough to use any of it,
If they don’t bring clothes down they don’t get washed etc etc
Sound like they need some serious discipline x
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I take the WiFi away and upstairs electric until my kids learn to listen and do what I’ve asked/told them, the more they kick off the longer they go without and don’t get it back until whatever was asked/demanded of them is finished. You’ll get alsorts thrown at you like I hate you etc but push through it, guarantee by a week of doing that punishment you’ll find the push less and less. And yes I agree counselling for you all! Goodluck
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It’s not against any laws for a child to have no toys. Take them away. Make them earn them back.
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They can make a mess if they have nothing. I know it’s harsh but you are only one person having children’s aid in ur life is another stress but what ur asking is not to much.
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Box it all up and let them know they need to earn it back if you have to pick it up
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I would take their possession and I would take everything out if there rooms even the doors if need be. Limit t.v. As well. Until they learn to listen and comply to rules they would only have the basics like bed dresser in there room all toys etc would be put up. I would give them chores to do with times to have them done by. If not done no playtime no tv no anything until chores are done. They could sit in there rooms until done. I also would get them into counseling they are acting out for a reason. Good luck and God bless.
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You must have a crapppy case worker you should be in parenting classes .
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Bag up everything and get some counseling.
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I trashed the stuff they left lying around, sorry kiddo, I assumed you were done with it!!
The smearing feces on the walls is a bit extreme as an 8 year old, im not sure what I would of done if mine ever did that, I have 3 children who are in now adults with children of their own, i was a single mother working 2 jobs and some days I would just stand in the shower and cry so I understand you feel defeated, however, they have absolutely no respect for you once so ever, without that you have nothing, I wouldn’t do 1 thing extra for either 1 of them! Breakfast/ lunch/ dinner , no snacks NOTHING! Ide take every single toy they have! When they start RESPECTING you they can EARN it back! TV!? NOPE! NOTHING until they know you mean buisness! I hope it gets better because this behavior will lead to much bigger things then S…T smeared on your walls!
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Spare the rod, spoil the child…permanently
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to those saying she should be able to hit her children–she just got out of a dv situation. The last thing those kids need is to see or experience more violence. they are acting out because of the situation they were in–the boy is likely imitating what her husband was doing. Counseling is a must. And children just don’t know how to clean–they need to be shown how. Work along side them with a reward offered for when you are all done–like all go out to do something fun. And reduce how much stuff they have–it is overwhelming for adults let alone kids when there is too much to organize.
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Just start throwing all the things they leave around out. Thought it was trash because special belongings don’t go on the floor. And if that still didn’t work I’d just be blunt and ask if they want to be taken away because the lady that comes and visits will take them to an ugly place where they won’t have the nice things they have. It’s scary it’ll get them to do right. The 8 year old is old enough to understand.
Do you have an attic or basement you can remove their luxury items too?
Luxury items would entail
-toys
-designer clothes
-jewelry
-electronics
-games
And so on…
Remove the items and leave them with clothes, books a bed and a blanket. Don’t even leave them with the door to their rooms. They need privacy to change they can do that in the bathroom (whatever clothes left on the bathroom floor will be “thrown away”) really just place them in a bag with the rest of the “luxury” items. They no longer deserve the fast food treats, sugary cereals, chips and other junk food snacks. When hungry they can be supplied with a fruit, water or wait till lunch.
It’s a harsh way to deal with it but sometimes it’s the only way. When left with little to nothing they will learn that their belongings are all because of you and they need to respect you to receive such luxury items.
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Let the state take them. They’ll beg to come back
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All they need is 3 hots and a cot at this point.
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No advice, but sending prayers and good vibes your way!! I’m still trying to figure out how to deal with my 9 yo. Parenting disobedient children is definitely not for the weak!! Put your foot down and keep your head up momma. You got this! 
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You need to speak with your caseworker. Get into counseling… you and them. Those kids have been thru a lot at a young age and may need some help emotionally
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Hun. You dont need to hit your kids but the fact you expect a 5 yr old and 8 yr old to clean anything but their room is crazy. Disabled or not. They didnt choose to be birthed and hit. You did. Clean your damn house. Or ask ur mom and sister for help. The would be bare basics after cleaning it so they cant destroy again. Ask your case worker for parenting tips. They should be able to help hopefully.
There’s lots of great advice here and lots of wild advice, definitely read through and pick what will work best for you.
If that was my kids, I’d put all their stuff in the trash. I paid for it, it’s mine. When they can show me respect and that they’ve learned, we will discuss options of replacing their things.
The poop smearing would get a pop on the butt and some bleach to clean my whole bathroom 
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Sort it all out. Give away extras. Box up the ones you want to keep. Tell them when they start listening and prove they are responsible, they can earn some back
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1st thing is 1st…
Behavior is communication…
So… there has to be more than just defiance going on here…
however…
That does NOT make it okay to act like that…
There is now law that says kids need toys.
They need
*food (not necessarily food they like… just the basic necessities)
Clothing (not necessarily what they like but what fits.)
A bed (Nothing fancy… a bed to sleep in)
I would invest in a box of hefties and bagg evey toy up… DONE. No.wifi…
Books only. They can earn it back one at a time…
And this case worker needs to find counseling
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By “domestic situation” do you mean domestic violence? Only clue I have to that is that DCFS is involved….
If so, I think it’s possible that therapy might be helpful for your kids. Their lives have been uprooted for one, but for second, domestic violence affects everyone in the home. Not just the person who is the “victim”, even if this person never touched them.
Kids don’t know how to process emotions like adults do. They act out instead.
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I would just like to say that I personally know this mother and I have known her my whole life, she has never once “beat” her children dcfs caseworker said that was part of the rules was no physical discipline. She’s reaching out to you mothers for advice and help but some of your comments are uncalled for. Isn’t this supposed to be a support group 
No one is perfect. She is doing her best and is doing everything they ask her to do, she wasn’t the problem I was her x husband and now the children run all over her. She has tried timeouts, throwing toys away, trying to get them to clean up messes and they don’t listen. I told her she needed to talk with her caseworker for ideas other than what she has been doing in order for them to be discipline bc these 2 children are very stubborn and they don’t respect her.
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Just have patience. This too shall pass. They are testing you to see if you’ll give in. Kids are smart. They know you can’t use your old ways and are taking advantage. But still to it. Be consistent. They will notice that every single time they don’t listen, you’re taking away their electronics. Every single time. Within a few weeks they will start to adjust. Do not give in and do not lose your marbles lol. Things will fall into place. Just stick with it. Ask your worker for more tips. That’s pretty much her job…to help you manage this
Where is their father? If he decent he needs to be helping.
Talk to your caseworker about counseling honestly they’re still young and need to learn healthy ways to let out their frustration & deal with the change. Even if whatever happened didn’t happen directly to them it’s still a traumatic experience. Caseworkers usually have whole list of resources that are free might as well take advantage of it while you have to deal with them.
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Run your house like a boot camp. Make them run laps to earn back their electronics (after the chores are done). It’s good for them, teaches a healthy lifestyle and all your problems should stop.
Make him clean up his poop. Have someone help you take every single thing but their bed & clothes out of their rooms & make them earn them back by doing chores. Also take their favorite outfit. Let them wear any & everything else but that. Once they listen & help, they can start having things back a little ata time starting after 2 weeks. Letthe caseworker know what they’ve been doing & what u are going to do so that no one can say anything bad. They will learn.
Grab the bin put it in the middle of the room and say if they don’t start tidying up all the stuff on the floor goes in the bin…. Start with there most important items such as electronics or favourite stuffed animals. I do this with my kids and it works wonders never had to literally throw things out coz it scares them in to doing it.
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remove everything, lock it away. Leave them a bed and the necessities. tell them their toys ect are a privilege, and if they cannot respect their things, mother or house, that privilege is removed.
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I have found doing things like push ups and squats as discipline can be effective, loss of privileges. The best thing you can do for them is get into counseling and to create a structured environment. My kids have daily expectations, they both have daily chores that help around the house. They’re going through a lot, try to be patient, consistency is key in the long term.
I think counseling is desperately needed. Children do not typically play in their feces out of retaliation. That can be a sign of a real problem.
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Get into counseling to help you and them. I would clean out their room and pack up all unnecessary items. They can keep clothes, bed and a couple toys. Let them know when they keep that clean they can earn things back… slowly. They can also help you around the house to earn their toys back.
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First 8 and 5…it gets worse as they come into teenage years…i hope u can figure something out soon.
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DCF make the situation worse .then if you don’t follow decision they want to talk about taking. I am make mine obey. All mindd grow now but grands and they will mind to.
Drawing on the walls with poop at 8 years old. That’s not normal behavior for that age even when mad. I would look into getting him help.
Dcs should be giving you services for the kids like therapy and other resources like summer programs for the kids so they are busy part of the day until school starts and then after school you can get them into a program that will help you alot…The behavioral health that they can get therapy from has programs and other services that can help as well…I was in a similar situation and those helped us I packed up alot of things and only kept out what we needed to.They had a cup with thier names on them that they used and also cleaned just like thier plate,bowl,spoon and thier toys they kept out a few things but packed up the rest they could trade it out at the end of the week for a different one but they had to behave and earn it.They could earn more toys the longer they were good and cleaned up.You can do a star chart for that.Have the kids make the star chart and a chore chart.We also had the rules posted up so they can remember what they were so they “didn’t forget”.You and your children have been through so much and it’s so hard for kids to understand and to be able to deal with it all.Stay strong mama your doing great we all have hard times and need help.Your kids love you and you love them you guys will get through this.
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Number one take everything out of there room just leave clothes and bedding I did this it worked but before I gave them the choice I dump it all the floor and they had the choice garbage or clean also sit them down tell them if there working on getting taken away from you keep doing what they are then tell them they wont have to worry about cleaning because they’ll be going away…its be that dhs tells us how to raise our kids and everyone is so fearful of them…well since you can’t discipline ask the social worker what you do when they abused you make him sit for a good hour with nothing show them you won’t do nothing for them since they won’t do for you trust me it’s an against the law good luck
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A child that age messing with their feces like that is not an issue for spanking or out of “retaliation”. It is a cry for help and they need therapy and open communication with you and support not spankings
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Take the devices away. Little shits! So sick if kids being disrespectful. You are doing a great job. Good luck.
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The rebellion to a certain level is normal… The 8 year old rubbing poop on the wall can be a sign of something else going on… Sense dcfs is already involved I would recommend using them to your advantage where you can…try to get the kids into services and family counseling as well so you can also learn with them the proper tools of working as a healthy family. Sending prayers there is a shift in your family because you getting out of the abusive relationship was a huge step and this probably seems like just another hurdle…hang in there
Not to point out anything or make assumptions here at all.
But you are saying that DCFS will not let you discipline physically? Ok. Then you say the children will not listen and are just acting crazy because you can not physically discipline them right? Ok. Well and I am saying this in the nicest way possible but maybe they were being disciplined way too much prior to all this and now they are acting out because they know you can’t do that anymore.
I’m not against spanking a child when it is necessary and so on. But in my opinion it sounds like they are taking advantage of being wild children and not being “spanked” anymore. Something doesn’t sound right in this whole thing. Was the ex husband “spanking or abusing” them? Or were you and now you can’t and they are taking advantage.
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Take everything away no toys just no outing no treats no takeaway nothing. They can earn those by doing jobs. As for there devices you can get an app that u can control there screen time and turn off there device from your phone. As for punishments if taking toys and that away doesnt work. Time out on bed all day if you have to. No friends over no ipads no tv writing lines… have you tried a reward chart so they can see there progress.
I only think you should ask your worker to organise counciling for the the children and yourself. As they may be acting out due to the break up kids handle things differently they may need to learn new skill in how to cope instead of trashing the house.
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They are testing you to see what they can get away with.I would take their electronics away,everything in their room except their bed,clothes,blankets.I’d also talk to them and let them know that when they can start to behave,they will earn their stuff back.You have to be persistent.
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They’re struggling and testing boundaries Bc everything is different now. Are they in any therapy to work through their trauma from the domestic violence? They could just be exerting control over anything they can right now.
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Too much pampering of kids. Stop being too soft on kids and expect them to grow in a proper manner. They are so good at manipulating parents
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In my house I have a 9 and 5 yr old, and they misbehave a lot, but I never physically discipline them, there is no need to do that… so time outside dont work, spankings dont work, yelling doesnt work. So you try a new approach… you give them choices in a calm manner but sternly. Say you will either clean this up or you will not have your tablet or tv or something they like. They need clear direction, give them the choice to be in control of what they do instead of just yelling it to them, it doesnt process in their brains the way you intend and then they do the opposite. You need to do a new approach on how you handle your kids. Yelling and spanking and telling them things that makes them feel bad are abusive and traumatic. Dont be the teason they need therapy. Instead do family counseling and see if you can get to the root cause of everything. It does help to have help and that’s fine. Your child playing with poop is not ok and out of nowhere is his way of showing you “I need help” so get your child seen by a psychologist.
Help a mama out and respond anonymously on our forum. My kids have not been listening to me and I am at a loss: Advice? - Mamas Uncut
I would say just hangout with the children and make cleaning a fun thing to do I do and they help me
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Lack of physical discipline isn’t the reason they aren’t listening. Physical discipline is typically lazy parenting. I would suggest therapy for both they are probably going through a lot of emotions and confused as well.
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