How to co-parent with a narcissist?

If the court order is that he has her then a judge will side with him. And to be honest, missing a day of school, especially at a younger age, is really okay for the most part.
I’m sorry you are dealing with a narcissist. It seems reasonable that he should take her trick or treating in your town, but there really probably isn’t much you can do unfortunately

Give him the benefit of the doubt and if he messes up then record it. And keep recording other mistakes then present it to the judge.

Why does the judge always have to side with the mother? Why isn’t the fathers position taken into consideration? I know the OP mentioned, narcissism and abusive behavioural patterns as a rationale and reasoning in her mind but I’m seeing nothing of evidence or example of such behaviour. Not that she has to divulge all nooks and crannies of her relationship history but, please provide evidence when throwing such slanderous accusations. I’m speaking from experience when I say, there are reasons and inconveniences in everybody’s lives that might explain why he can’t consistently trick or treat in the OPs hometown. We know NOTHING of the back-side of this story, except that she’s labelled him a narcissist and abuser (with; going from this posts depth of information cannot be confirmed or denied so should be left out entirely) but that doesn’t mean that his wanting to be with his child on a holiday (whilst isn’t relevant to her, obviously means something to him) is just point scoring… even though it entirely could be but as the post doesn’t bring any historical fact into this, I’m of the assumption that he WANTED to trick or treat with his child, and it isn’t just a way for him to manipulate the situation. What holidays does the OP have?? She hasn’t stated if she gets all birthdays AND christmases or one of each every other year. Seems to me she’s looking to find any excuse for her child to not be around the father, and if there are substantiated reasons for this, then I defend and commend her entirely but would encourage her to word her question in a more unbiased format… but given the information provided… it seems like she sees Halloween as a “non holiday” and is presuming he’ll not take the child to school on time. It’s court ordered that he has his child on this specified day, regardless of timing, you have no say in his plans with the child and the whole idea of “using it as ammo later” makes me sick. Thoroughly fed up of women running the judicial system and thinking everything should swing their way because they’re female. Just because you’ve given birth or become a mother doesn’t give you the Devine understanding or right to say what’s best for your child whilst disregarding the opinions and feelings of the father, nor does it mean that your word should be trusted on a whim. I think, considering the way the question was worded that - you need to get a grip of your emotions and past trauma and if the father actually wants to spend time and have experiences and memories with the child then you should let it be so without a fight. If that means taking a risk on him making sure the child gets to school on time, then so be it, a day or morning of missed school is the least of anybody’s worries, EVER! If it turns out to be a delightful weekend/day with your daughter and her father then isn’t that the most important thing? If it turns out that everything you thought/said was right then you’re just justified in your initial thoughts and know to trust your gut and more importantly, how to argue the situation in court in the future (as I assume if he’s the piece of shit you’ve made him out to be that you’ll fight tooth and nail to scrap the court agreement) so it’s a win win… But I don’t think that’s the case at all. My final thought; after many!! IF any of you are still reading :joy: is that after all these years people still see children as weapons and bargaining chips to use and abuse as they see fit… and a mother’s word is always taken as gospel no matter what!! (even though some of the most horrific tales of sadistic abuse and emotional turmoil and battery come from children abused by their own mothers) They are almost always taken on their word… JUST BECAUSE and that’s makes me sick! So many of you in the comments have jumped on the bandwagon cuz she used trigger words like “narcissistic” and “abusive” without knowing a damn thing but still condemned him and his Halloween plans. Sickens me no end. The OP gave no reason in her query as to why the father wasn’t to be trusted to take the daughter to school on time… so looking at it from that perspective, what actually is the problem here? And don’t come at me with it’s a school day because I bet she wouldn’t query taking her child out of school if it coincided with a family holiday… It’s only okay if it’s the mother doing it right :roll_eyes::roll_eyes:

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When I was little I spent every other weekend with my dad that lived 1 hr and 15 mins away. Sometimes he would take me to school on monday. Yes, it was different bit nothing life changing. He would wake me at 4am (pee, wash teeth and sleep in the car) to prevent traffic and so we could have breakfast. If it was planned before the weekend I would get dressed (uniform) right before school, if not, we would stop at mom’s house to change. :woman_shrugging: With your narc ex, I would stick to the court order as much as you can. It would be a bigger headache than her just missing school or waking super early.

The best way to handle this is comply and meanwhile chalk down your concerns and suggestions for the authorities and submit.

If she misses one day of school it’s no big deal she’s also 4 anything that school teaches her you can do it at home. You wanted the court order so follow it.

My kids father is a narcissist as well, best advice is stick to the parenting time schedule. Halloween is also considered a holiday in my parenting time order but he no longer gets the kids on Halloween on his years because of how much of a hassle it is.
If your ex does not stick to the parenting schedule you should file a complaint and keep everything written down, like keeping a diary/journal, date everything you write down…. If you need to go back to court to have parenting time modified for any reason, the journal will be submitted to the court.

My son went through the thing. Just know, if you don’t follow court order, you will go to jail, period. My son did.

Follow the order. If he messes up, the court will see that. Any and all things are for the benefit of the child, of course, and if he makes her miss school, it’s a big red flag for the court. Gotta let this one play out.

It’s not like anyone trick or treats after nine…she’ll get plenty of sleep. It’s best to pick your battles.

Let it go, if he doesn’t get her to school then it’s an issue, but he’ll probably say she didn’t feel well. Doesn’t he have to go to work? If she is sick at 10 am Monday he should return her to u as per court order

I can’t believe you are getting all worked up and it’s over 2 months away, I’m guessing your an overthinker… take the obsessive over thinking away and it’s just another weekend away with her father… who cares if she might or might not be tired in over 2 mths time for school. Honestly Mumma, you need a hobby or something…

You are going to have to choose your battles you don’t want the court to see you as controlling or isolating. Things can be revised in court but to you need proof and documentation.

To have all that custody and rights he must not be a bad father, he also pays a good penny in child support. Stop complaining and try to control everything. Its probably your fault you guys divorced.

If it is his time, let it be.

He has his time with the child and you have yours .

You must relax and Not try to control everything . You may not feel he is the best parent but give him a break and try to be supportive for the child.

The judge is going to enforce the order that’s in place, which says he gets her. If he doesn’t have her at school on time, or worse at all, that will give you ammunition to have the order changed so he has to have her back to you by a certain time on a school night.

Trust me. If it’s a court order you will lose. But- he better take her to school on time and rested or you have a case.

School is a waste of time, any amount of time with either parent should be most important. Co-parenting is a learning experience, once one parent barks orders or starts bossing the other parent, it will push that parent away from wanting to participate, because they automatically feel they will fail.

You don’t co parent with them. My ex was the worst. Everything was a story about how much I have been a bad parent

Let it play out. He may realize that Monday mornings come way to early when driving her to school. If he doesn’t bring her or gets there late then the school will have record of it. Don’t create a problem by worrying about it ahead of time. See what happens then make a plan if you need to.

Let him do what he does. He’s sinking his own ship. It will all come out in the end.

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I’m in this situation, and had something similar, take him back for a hearing, that’s the only way x

If Halloween is specifically mentioned in the court order you have to comply. If not, you don’t. Make sure you document any time that he causes an issue. It’s important if you need the court order modified in the future.

be smart. obey the court order and expect him to do the same. if he fails, in any way, to obey the court order, keep a record of it. you may use this in court later. if you disobey the court order i can tell you he will keep a record of it and use it against you. obey the court orders. many fathers live states away from their children, accommodations must be made, but they are all better with court approval. without the courts approval, either one of you could be in trouble. you don’t want that.

Celebrate Halloween early with her- find a trunk or treat, do your thing. You will every other year for the next 10 anyhow. Make a tradition. Let this one go. I taught and no one is learning jack the day after Halloween haha! Kids are horrid that day. It probably hurts you, makes you mad, makes you feel like you are missing out, even disrespected that he isn’t doing what you request. Mourn this. You need to grieve the loss of the expectations you have and go forward. Hugs mamma you got this

When my ex & I divorced, we had a visitation agreement set in place (against my better judgment ). I told him he’d regret it. I actually begged him to keep the courts out of it. But no. At first we followed it. I never cared to, but he did. (Joint custody). As time went on, things changed, his work schedule, couldn’t see the kids/pick them up bc he was too tired, his demanding gf’s (many different ones). It became a hassle. I always said, take/see them whenever you want. They lived with me, so I didn’t care how often or when. I put my foot down when he drank around our kids or when our kids complained about his gfs (them fighting in front of our kids). He took me to court to try to get full custody (more than once). Investigators were hired by the courts. It got ugly. The last time we went, I told the judge, I never followed the visitation schedule. She asked why & I explained my reasons. “The kids are ours.” “Not mine, not his, ours.” Sometimes he’s a great dad, but other times he makes bad decisions. I said to the judge, “We’ve been to court many times, and I mean no disrespect to you judge, but as much as I enjoy seeing you, I never want to see you again!” “I’m tired of this!!” “I know courts are supposed to help decide what’s in the best interest of the kids, but you honestly don’t know.” “You don’t know our kids, you certainly don’t love our kids, so how can you know what’s best for them?” After 13 yrs of going to court, she smiled at me and said “You know what? You’re right!” She gave me full custody right then & there. (which I did not ask for) I always said to my bd, see them whenever you want. He no longer drinks around them, doesn’t put his gfs first, well since our teenage daughter told him she didn’t feel comfortable being around another gf. When he sees our kids, he actually gives them his undivided attention. We don’t argue much at all. How it should be. Parents should put feelings aside for their kids sake. Don’t use them to try to get at the other parent. My bd wrote the book on narcissism, plus he has that macho man mentality. It wasn’t easy dealing with him!!! I learned to pick & choose my battles. I think you need to do the same. It’s Halloween, one day out of the year won’t affect her life. Let her enjoy it. You can explain to the school why she didn’t go or that there’s a court order or whatever reason you give. If it’s possible, talk to him about your concerns. Good luck to you!! I hope things work out!!

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Don’t bother working anything out with him. Go directly to the court. Petition now and you might get it solved in time.

Either skip a day of school or get him to take her to school

Let her stay home the next day and continue the celebration with fun and movies.

It’s going to be really small in the grand scheme of things. Roll with it, it will work out best for your daughter. He will always have his rights unless he is proven to be verbally, physically, or sexually abusive. Which should make you happy because the same rules apply to you. :woman_shrugging: Take her to a psychologist if she is having trouble, and you should see one too. They can give you tools to help navigate this unfamiliar situation.

10am Monday after Halloween, I reckon just let her have that 1st day off. Fri-sun tho that’s a bit much I hope that isn’t EVERY weekend, otherwise she may end up thinking your the one that makes her toe the L I’m ne n dad is all fun. That’s just dumb.
It’s a courts order so abide by it for now, document any and every downfall on his behalf and also request for u to have alternate weekends or at least 1 weekend out of the month.

Well the good thing is she is 4 stop not in public school yet. Have him deliver get top whatever preschool she is going to and let the school know. If he is actually a narcissist and abusive why does he have her at all. Keep your eyes open.

If he’s not willing to have her home at a decent time or trick or treat in your town there’s unfortunately not much you can do. At the end of the day all you can do is what you’re ordered to do. With that being said it sounds like you may need to go back and change the visitation schedule to work better for her schooling.

She is 4, so she is in pre-k? And your worried about her missing a day? Some fun at Halloween should trump all.

Coming from someone that has the same thing but I get them every other weekend. Find a place half way between you two to meet 30/30 fat 5pm each weekend he gets her.

“School” :roll_eyes: at 4. You mean daycare? Headstart? No ones reporting to child services if one day is missed. Relax and go hit a Halloween party :sweat_smile::face_exhaling:

Verify when his town will actually Trick or Treat.
If Halloween falls on a week night, or a Sunday, a lot of places (where I live any way) will actually have Trick or Treat on Saturday to eliminate problems such as this.

He should just drive her to school Monday morning. One night of reduced sleep will be okay.

I really don’t think it’s a big deal if she misses school one day. If that even does happen. It’s not like a 4 year old is going to stay up till midnight trick or treating….:woman_shrugging:t2:

Sorry you miss Halloween with ur kid tho. That does suck. Just do a trunk or treat thing before Halloween that way u get to do it too. That’s what I do with my kids…

Give him the benefit of the doubt, this time. If he screws up, then take it up with your lawyer and proceed to make amendments to the judges order. You don’t have too many options otherwise. I hope your daughter is the main concern for your ex too, when all is said and done. :crossed_fingers:

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It sounds like the holiday section of your visitation schedule is for federal holidays (with the day off). If Halloween falls on a Sunday, the regular weekend hours would apply.

If Halloween is in the papers follow the papers otherwise you could be in contempt. Let the ex have his Halloween with her and let the ex make his own bed i.e. daughter misses school the nexts document it . I would suggest not making big deal before that day give him the opportunity to do the right thing being a parent and school. Control your response to the situation even in the bad situation the calmest person usually prevails. As far as lack of sleep it’s one night your daughter will be okay

The court order is in place and all I can say is if he breaks the order , that’s on him and will go against him, not you!
He’s an adult and if he can’t get his own daughter safely to school whilst in his care then that’s on him!! The judge will take that into consideration!!

All that post for one missed day of school? Seems like a waste of time even asking that question. Not to mention the time I’m wasting commenting on this garbage.

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Don’t get court orders if you don’t want to follow them simple as that

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U are being way over bearing sometimes ya just don’t get your way deal with simple. she won’t fail for being sleepy one day school seriously this is a childish argument let the man have time with his child you could be doing this all by yourself

Lets not sweat the small stuff, Halloween comes once a year and the child will probably only being doing a few blocks. This is only the beginning of your Divorced life with a child. Stay loving she need just that.

Since she’s 4 trick or treat starts early for kids that age, if you both can work it out in a way that he gets her earlier the following Sunday and he can take her early, for trick or treat and bring her back to you at a reasonable time so she can get her required amount of rest for school the next day, and if it states thru the court that it’s his responsibility to take her to school then he should and if she is not there then you can take it up with the court for other changes.

After 18 years of raising a daughter with a narc ex let me offer some advice. Document EVERYTHING honestly and thoroughly! Write down every interaction, communicate in email so there is a paper trail, don’t talk bad about him around your daughter, keep your nose clean and don’t engage with him about anything but parenting your daughter, stay as calm as possible around him and her. Narcs love getting reactions, don’t give him that. I started out with good intentions and trying to co-parent amicably but it didn’t take long to figure out that wasn’t going to happen with him. My ex used court as a means to bully and used his power over our daughter like an object to hurt me and she has been in therapy for years because of it. If the court order said to do one thing he would attempt to not follow the order, encroach on my time, steal and destroy her clothes and things she brought to his house, bring my daughter home hours late repeatedly on school nights, send her with medication he would dump it down the drain, refuse to comply with just about anything, yell at me in her presence, I could go on and on… If we made concessions for him outside of the order as a favor he would push them beyond the limits. My attorneys advice of documenting everything and communicating in email helped to show how abusive and unreasonable he was. Court listens to documentation and hopefully yours won’t have to go that far but if anything goes sideways will be so glad you did. My daughter is now in college and wants nothing to do with him. They look back on their life and childhood as adults and decide who they want in their life and remember how both parents behaved even if they don’t understand when they are little, someday she will understand. Good luck, I do hope yours goes much better than mine did. <3

Honestly just follow it, if there is an issue its ONE day of the school year. Is one day worth arguing about? I’d say no.

Do he say he was going to stay out all night with her n not send her to school? Give him a chance.

She’s four. She can take the next school day off.

Well you said it you don’t own her. Try not to make a big deal out of something that only happens once a year.

Some of the towns around me “adjust” trick or treat night. Find out if the town your ex lives in may move it to Saturday evening then you can stop stressing…been there…

At age 4, I would think a missed day of school would not be a very big deal. Memories with her father are important.

Trick or treating is from like 5 to 7pm… why can’t she be in bed by 9? … doesn’t seem like an issue to me :person_shrugging:

Honestly, it’s just one night. This isn’t an every night thing.

I think it’s fine. All children are going to be sleepy. All children are going to be hyped up on sugar. No teacher expects November 1st to be a perfect day. That’s just how it is when Halloween is on a school night. She’ll be fine.

One wee late night wont do any harm. She might be a bit grumpy in morning and need a nap next day.

Teacher’s understand these are fun late nights. They make it work in the classroom

You’re overthinking this. Let him enjoy her on Halloween, even if she should miss an hour of school, no big deal. Go with the flow.

You need to follow the rules or it will end up looking bad on you.

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She can sleep on the hour ride back. & don’t throw around that “abusive” word unless it’s warranted

In the infamous words of Rodney King , can’t we all just get along ?

Write everthing down that goes against the order , if she missed school , then it’s in your favor, won’t hurt her much

Be greatful her dad wants to be in her life , My ex left for 11 years then came back after they were 18 , I’m here to tell you, try to get along with your kids dad , it will back fire if you don’t…
Be happy you don’t have to deal with him , he’s your kids dad and that can’t change , weather there in there life or not, kids long for that void, just try get along for your daughter’s sake .
Parents not getting along can damage your kid or kids .

A court order is a court order. You stick to the court order. If the shoe was on the other foot, I’m sure you wouldn’t like it if he was imposing on your time with your daughter. You can be held in contempt if you don’t abide by the order even if you don’t like or agree with it. You should have read it fully before you agreed to it. I do believe that Halloween is included in a standard visitation order. It is in Ohio anyhow. I don’t think it was “snuck in without your knowledge” I’m pretty sure it’s a standard thing. Each parent gets the child every other year for that holiday.

What time do you get her back on Sundays? He would have to bring her before then.

So what? No one has a vehicle? Who decided to move? Him or you?

It’s only 1 day, so what if she goes to school a bit sleepy.

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Let her miss school that day to spend time with her dad

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It’s his time and his responsibility to get her to school.

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Let her miss a day of school and enjoy Halloween with her father it’s just a day

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Let her have the day off from school and enjoy her time with her dad on Halloween.

1 time a year - let her miss school.

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Give her a day off school. It’s a one-off. Not worth the stress.

He will have to take her to school regardless if he has her

Let him have her and let him get her to school.

Let her have the holiday, it isn’t her fault.

Just let her have fun and keep her home the next day… don’t ruin her fun

I don’t think missing one day of school will ruin her life lmaoo

Let her have the day off school

Call your attorney… they will be the most help

Anyone commenting on this blaming the mom, I just want you all to know your toxic side is showing!! To OUR knowledge everything in this post is true. Would she be against her court order? Yes! Is that okay? Not necessarily but that does not give you any reason to bash her for being concerned, you’re literally gaslighting and manipulating a woman you do not know because she said her ex is a narcissist, why is everyone so quick to turn the tables and bash her instead and defend the father??? You don’t think a shitty dad can get a court order? You’re all proving my point by defending him and belittling the mom, actual valid arguments I understand but most of these are just straight up saying she’s probably crazy and doing it to spite the dad. Narcissists exist people!!! And they can be parents!!! Sorry that’s so hard to believe.

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It’s a day of school, she will be okay.

Let’s just let her enjoy Halloween with dad. You’re digging. If you dig far enough you’ll find problems in everything.

The judge would not agree with you unless you go to court and ask

Have to stick with the court order. If you want anything changed you must go back to court. At her age even if she were to miss Monday it’s not the end of the world. Let her enjoy her time with dad

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Let him have her. If she doesn’t go to school report it

Just let her go with her dad and miss school on Monday.

Ask them not everyone to get approved call your attorney

Just tell him to take her to school it is on him and if he don’t then take him back to court he can give a little. If she misses school because of him constantly then take him back to court with her attendance that should fix it or he can lose Sunday’s with her or he has to bring her home Sunday at a decent time so she can get sleep for school I doubt any judge in his right mind wouldn’t side with you just right everything down

Trick-or-treating is typically over between seven and eight in most places. There’s no reason he can’t take her until 630 or seven and have her home afterwards. Then she’s home in time to get ready for bed and for school the next day. There are five nights a week that are school nights every year and Halloween falls on a different one every year. You can’t use it falling on a school night as an excuse for her not to spend that with her father.

You would be in contempt

Better let that father take his child. Especially if its in the custody order. If the child misses school then dad will have to deal with those repercussions

She is 4… So that means Preschool and it is not mandatory. You sound a little controlling. Follow the court order. You are lucky to have a father that participates in her life. Again follow the order he is allowed to have her until 10 am Monday.

If its court ordered it court ordered. If he doesn’t take her to school its going to look bad on him

Okay so he’s a jerk, she’s four… so going into pre k I’m guessing? While I understand your need for not only boundaries with him but a more set schedule with her, gees Louise let the kid live, she’s four, she may never get the opportunity to stay out late until she’s old as dirt and working all night to pay for her college degree. Let it slip this time, but for future reference talk to your lawyer about the holidays again and not discussing the Halloween issue. I’m sure once he gets her out of the car a few times he will be tired of doing it, plus four year olds get tired and have melt downs, highly doubt he would keep the kid out all night, especially if he’s that into himself.

An hour is not that far away……

but I understand if you’re a helicopter mom like me :woman_shrugging:t2:

Nothing is perfect, just have to deal with it. Hopefully he is paying child support if not put him in jail and not have to worry about the holidays