Is this post to see how many comments are posted
I agree with showing your kids responsibility and giving them chores but what you & your husband are doing is child abuse especially when it’s not to your husbands expectations. Sorry let them be kids your taking there you youth away.
These are your children, not your servants. Based on your post, your husband is verbally and mentally abusive to your children and probably to you as well. Having chores is one thing, expecting perfect results is another. They are CHILDREN.
You want advise, stop with the prison camp lifestyle, ease up with the warden mentality and let your husband know this way of “parenting” is not ok and needs to stop
You are abusive and do not deserve such beautiful hard working children. Shame on you both… I hope those kids get “some” childhood, preferably as far away from your clutches as possible!
So basically you are afraid of your own husband too…to be excusing such behavior toward the kids, you step out his 'line of fire" and let him attack the kids. You are a selfish woman…I agree with all the above so far, you aren’t protecting your kids and you will regret it.
Reflecting over my childhood, different children respond better with different punishments. If you looked at me wrong, I immediately knew to correct myself, my brother changed habits when being yelled at, whereas my other brother changed habits only by a quick spanking. Every child is different, even in the same family. Find out what works best for her (without asking) and react accordingly. Otherwise, you may end up having a tough relationship down the road where she wants nothing to do with you as an adult.
Your kids can come live with me. I’ll take care of them correctly. IE I’ll be the parent
Just because he’s not physically hitting them doesn’t mean he’s not verbally abusing them your allowing it and letting it happen even when you know it’s wrong or he’s getting carried away your supposed to protect your kids the world will already try and tear then down mom and dad should be a safe place and him name calling he sounds like a child who can’t express himself
I understand that you are trying to teach your kids respect, work ethics, and discipline but REALLY??? I wouldn’t put up with that crap either. Sure your kids SHOULD help out from time to time with the household chores but come on are they your own personal slaves??? If they wanted a nice phone than yes make them earn it little by little not by slave driving them to death. It’s your job as parents to provide a roof over their heads, clothes on their backs, and food in their stomachs. It’s your own responsibility to clean your own house with their help from time to time just as simple chores. Your husband is a control abusing freak and you are no better than he is by silently standing by and allowing it too go own. Some people shouldn’t be parents.
Every child is different.
I sat down with each one of mine and let them be a part of the contract.
They helped snd agreed to their chores. We developed positive snd negative consequences.
We signed it together.
We both had a copy
You and your husband should seek counseling. These are your children, you should be building up their self esteem not belittling them. The fact that you wrote this and have to ask if this is ok is alarming
You’re making excuses for an abusive asshat.
Why don’t you try pitching in as parents and doing something for your kids? This is ridiculous, you both sound lazy. It’s one thing to expect chores done, it’s another to expect complete perfection all the time.
Sounds like you have maids not children
This post and a lot of posts in this group come across as click baiting simply to get responses/traffic.
Both of you are abusing them you don’t do nothing they are plenty of parents WHO WORK FULL TIME and come home and do the job not the kids yeah I understand that you are teaching them how to be grown up when they are out of the house but you both need to be kid less cause kids are not slaves you and your husband made that decision the day you both laid down and made the children that your house wouldn’t be spotless grow up both of you if you were my parents I would run away and never look back you both better get it under control cause if I was her I would call social services on you both I pray that she does for the sake of herself and her siblings you two don’t deserve children period what type of mother are you who only cooks every once in while omg I pray someone knows you and they report you soon
Good luck with a relationship after they leave the home. They may not resent you for it now, but probably will later in life for not stepping in. Kids are kids, fear of failure is never a fun thing to live in especially when it appears it is not done good enough, even if it is. Let them be kids and enjoy as well as work. Repeated failure can lead to so many issues when expectations are not achievable. Suicide, depression, running away from home, and many other things can become issues. Slippery slope for sure.
Would you speak to an adult like that??
Why the hell are you SPEAKING TO YOUR CHILDREN LIKE THAT???
The fact that you came here to ask for opinions it means that your gut feeling as a mother is telling you that what you two are doing to these children are untenable and unacceptable.
When do they get to enjoy their childhood?
If they are burdened with household chores that they can’t complete what are you and your husband doing?
Pool the money you pay the children with and pay a household technician. Let the children enjoy what remains of their childhood. My heart cries for these poor children
I see a lot of mrtal issues and probably self medication in those kids lives
This is fake crap and the reason she’s posting this is to get people mad,she is a narcissist that loves to play with people’s emotions. In that note I do know people who treat their kids just like this but they don’t go out there telling people that they miss treat their kids like this idiot is doing.
My children had chores as I was a single parent. They did their best and learned by their mistakes. I believe you are overdoing it, letting your husband verbally abuse them. If they do what they can, that should be good enough. If you want perfection then you and your husband go behind the children and do it yourselves. The kids are doing their best. You will lose them in the long run.
Their kids not slaves you and your husband need to get off your high horse. Smh
My grandparents, by whom I was raised, were like you and your husband.The day I turned 18 I left and never looked back.That is future you are looking at if you continue to allow & be a participant in your husbands abusive behaviors towards your children.At what point do you actually allow them to grow and flourish with their own interests & hobbies rather than just being your live - in housekeepers?
So you are raising built in slaves??? You’re wrong he’s wrong. The audacity of him calling your children lazy when neither of you have any house hold responsibility except for paying the bills. Let’s see how clean your house stays when you two lazy adults have to do it yourself. Verbal abuse is a thing and you are allowing it. Your kids will grow up to hate you and rightfully so. You stink of codependent narcissistic relationship. Teaching your children about responsibility by being responsible not with treating them like they owe you for existing. You should have never had children.
He’s abusive and will effect them their entire lives wake up !!! They are not slaves like the previous poster wrote and you are no better.
That’s not abuse that’s good parenting. Teaching responsibilities and to be respectful and good work ethics. My parents were the same way. More kids need that these days that’s why they are the way they are. Oh quit paying them. You keep a roof over there heads and clothes on there backs.
Your kids sound like good kids who do their chores. They should not have to meet exceedingly high standards for cleaning a house. They are children after all. Abuse can take many forms
She might just be super sensitive and doesn’t thrive well with that kind of authoritarian figure. Some kids just have different needs, even when it comes to discipline. They can become depressed and so forth. I too, have high standards for cleanliness. Which the kids are aware of and I can get a little annoyed with their lack of attention to detail. It’s frustrating. Name calling is never a good thing though, respect should always be maintained.
Just make sure you investigate her claims in “abuse” and see if they are justified or not. Kids can be dramatic but there could be something behind it.
As a child I never got paid for doing my chores, if I got $80 a month. Everything would be perfect so no one could say anything to me. And all kids are lazy. So maybe they have just become custom to receiving the money and they think it is expected. So they got lazy and that’s why they don’t seem to care because they know they are gonna get paid so they are gonna do what they can to get by. This is a trend in my household right now with my five kids.
The joys of teenagers! Be thankful that they are doing all that cleaning for you & you guys nit have hardly anything to do.Yes it is good to teach them like that & habe responsibility but as they get older & they do see the difference & will notice alot of things.That is very sad that her father is that harsh on her & with her also working to & also having to do extra on top of that is harsh & could be to much for her.Put yourself in her place & have him talk & treat you like he does her,I am sure you wouldn’t like it either.The way he treats her is some form of abusive.You guys may not think so or see it but she does & it’s going to cause her some kind of mental illness (depression,anxiety,etc).As a momma bear you to need to defend your babies whether it is your husband & let him know how you feel & see things to
Sounds like you both should let up a little. They are growing up and therefore you need to adjust your rules. Yelling at them normally is not good. Do you want them yelling at their kids when they are adults? Because that’s what you are teaching them. Just be mindful of the way you speak to them and give more complements and you’ll find them being a little happier.
So the parents work full time jobs and don’t do any household chores except some cooking and now the “problem” daughter is in school, working and is making her feelings known that she doesn’t want to do all of this how dad wants. Dad isn’t happy about how it’s done and emotionally/verbally abuses the kids.
- The daughter is literally just doing what she is seeing. If you work outside the home, you don’t have to take care of the home.
- Mom, I bet you can’t wait until the kids are moved out (and believe me, it’s coming REALLY fast. Once that happens, who is going to take care of the house? Oh, you are momma…guess who is also going to take the emotional and verbal abuse? Oh, you are momma.
Everyone lives there and everyone needs to help out. Your kids are already have full time jobs (their schooling) and are cleaning your house while mom and dad pay the bills and enjoy a clean house.
Oh man are you in for a rude awaking within the next 5-10 years.
You have children that do the house for you cause you both work fulltime. Wtaf lady.!!! I have children. Yes they have chores. I don’t ever expect it to be the way I like to clean. I’m usually cleaning when there cleaning. Not sitting around expecting perfection. Your lazy and he’s lazy. You decided to have kids. They didn’t ask to be born. You opened your legs. Now keep moving your legs and be a mother, a provider, a cleaner, a nurse, a PROTECTOR.!!! Your both disgusting Hope they move out soon away from you and your husbands abuse. Your weak
What you wrote is disgusting! What’s worse is id bet $ you toned down how awful you & your husband are for this post.
This is abuse! Yes, they can help out around the house but your kids sound like slaves! Let them be kids too!
Soooooo YOUR main problem in your post is your 15yr old is rebelling? REALLY!
YOU and YOUR HUSBAND should be fucking reported to child services.
Use the $80 you pay your children to hire a maid. This treatment from your husband towards your children is child abuse. You must agree with this treatment towards your children you appear to just LET your husband destroy your children’s confidence and well being or are you afraid to speak up to him you just let your children take his abuse so you don’t have to? Mental, verbal and emotional abuse is domestic violence and YOUR arse needs to be kicked allowing this wankers treatment towards your kids. You and your nasty husband are lazy scummy arseholes and do not deserve those kids. This treatment within a work place is NOT exceptable why would you expect your children to NOT rebel just because this treatment is in YOUR home. God this sickens me. It’s one thing to teach our children how things are done but this is just absolute abuse. As others have said you need to be reported and your lucky this is anonymous. HELP YOUR CHILDREN STOP ABUSING THEM. Hope your daughter reports this herself.
Chores are good for children as this will set them up for adulthood; however, calling them names is verbal abuse is not acceptable in any circumstances as this is harmful to their mental health. Are you guys at least telling them how much you appreciate their help and how great they do in the things that have been done? Perfection is an unrealistic expectation from anyone, let alone a child. Letting your husband badger your children is abuse to. You both need to talk about this and come up with mutual consequences AND rewards that don’t include belittling them. If your 15 year old is expressing her unhappiness she reaching out for help. Teenagers are tough but they have so much going on and need the tools to cope. Those tools should come from you and your husband. From the sounds of it, y’all are teaching them yelling and name calling is an acceptable tool to cope. Those are very negative ways to deal with life. You’re supposed to building them up not tearing them down.
Was the Dad in the military? And i can only imagine Emily M Shaw .
Kids are not perfect nor should they be expected to be. Your daughter is right. By your own admission you said he yells and calls them names. They’re kids. And while I believe in kids having chores from the sound of it you guys treat them like the maid. And if your daughter is now working it’s really unfair to have the same expectations from her. 80 bucks isn’t crap compared to what’d you pay a maid to come in and do it. We have a rule in our house that everybody cleans up after themselves. We take turns cooking. You need to quit making excuses for your husband and put a stop to him verberally abusing your kids
It sounds like ur running a camp & borderlining child abuse. They are kids. Let them be KIDS. Discipline n chores are one thing but you sound like ur running a gd prison. The environment sounds steessful.
Kids need positive reenforcement. The negative comments, name calling etc will hurt their self image and they will feel like nothing they do is good enough. Chores are team work - join in with what has to be done. Expecting perfection is hurting the family. What will a clean house mean when the kids are grown and gone and don’t want to visit because of how they feel? Better to have a dirty house/some what clean house and lots of love!
Hahaha none of that is discipline. Discipline means to teach not to punish. Have fun with that
The chores are the chores but the way your Husband yells and calls them names is unacceptable. You all should go for some family counseling.
There’s nothing wrong with having your kids do chores but not to the point of being slaves. You seem to be very ungrateful parents because your kids don’t do it exactly perfect and the way you see fit. At least your kids do their chores because not many do these days. Calling them names because they’re not doing it to perfection is abuse. There’s no such thing as perfection! No parent is perfect, we all make mistakes but the fact that you want to stay out of it just shows that you are a coward or you agree with his mental abuse. If you want perfection so bad, then do it yourselves. Feel bad for your kids. When they don’t bother with you when they’re older and moved out of the house, blame yourselves.
Sounds like a toxic environment
They are your kids not your slaves!!! Sounds like to me you are scared of your husband. If I was you I would be leaving and taking my kids with you. If you allow him to treat your kids like that you are just as sorry as him!!!
This is emotional and verbal abuse! Your kids are not your slaves! And no human being deserves to be spoken to like you say your husband speaks to your children. Sure, a few chores here and there are fine but this sounds like utter abuse. I hope both you and your husband are reported to the authorities and your children removed. Neither of you deserve to have children. Absolutely despicable and disgusting parenting!!!
Disgusting excuses for parents. Please give your children to people who will actually love them and not treat them like slaves. You two are sick in the head.
Guess you messed up with that question…seems you are getting slammed
Ridiculous! Get a maid,ur kids aren’t there to clean up…yes “help” around but not keep the house clean…let them b kids
All I can say is, thank god I’m not one of your kids. You both are mentally abusive and needs parenting classes.
Ur husband needs a slap! So what I’d ur giving them a good home? Guess what…ur supposed to as parents!!!
By doing this post your making you and your husband look like a pair of sad sacks, let them be kids not you fucking slaves, you and your husband should be arrested for being cunts
Honestly if I were this 15 year old I’d be upset too. She has a full time job (school), and a part time job, and is expected to be on this cleaning brigade. And the fact that you sit back and allow your husband to berate the kids and do nothing…shameful! Ask yourself, would you let any other person (teacher, friend, coach) talk to your children the way your husband does? SHE is not the problem here.
Sounds like my shitty childhood😯
Lmaooo this post was wild. Y’all are the kinda parents I’m glad I never had. Making your kids do all the chores so y’all can sit on your asses after work is beyond me. You’re adults which means you can take care of your own house. Those are kids let them be kids. The only thing I had to clean was my own room and my own clothes. And that’s how it should be. They shouldn’t be cleaning up yalls messes while worrying about everything else too. They’re kids. 80$ a month to clean up after some slave drivers, hell naw
If she feels abused, you shouldn’t take that lightly. We all perceive things in a different way. Also, maybe let her choose which job she prefers. Either in the real world learning new skills and learning the value of her time …or cleaning up after you and your husband daily for $20 a week.
First I understand chores. Put not to the point where you or your husband dont have no chores too do at house. Whats going to happen when they get older. And they work full time. And they dont have children to clean the house everyday. They are not going to want to clean their own home. Because your teaching them that kids should do all the home chores.is wrong And what do u consider perfect. Its like your letting them down. What if they tried thier hardest on one of thier chores. And u think they dident do a perfect job. You are letting them down. Nothing is perfect. U should praise them with love. I understand to teach them discipline and responsiblity. But you cant make them clean everything. And it is mental abuse by calling them names. That is 100% wrong. Its more then provided them a good home and having nice stuff and vacations. Ect. They want love. Show them love and support. Encourage them they are doing wonderful at the chores. Be positive. And stop letting your husband call them names. Your both wrong.
My dad was just like that to us growing up, we learned to avoid him at all costs (whenever possible) if we left personal belongings out, he threw them in the outdoor trash bin. My mom finally divorced him, as he was verbally, emotionally & mentally abusive with everyone & also few times physically abusive with her.
He died 2&1/2 years ago & not one of us 5 kids (grown now) had a relationship with him after the age of 25 or 30. He wanted to keep control over us & we could no longer tolerate it!!
If either of you want to have healthy relationships with your kids (& any relationship with grandkids), get into individual, marriage & family counseling STAT!!
Trust me, I’m still traumatized at 60 from the way I was talked to & treated growing up, we all are…
Dear God, I’m glad your not my parents, I think I’d leave home
There really are no words for this post! Poor kids! You and hubby have no upkeep of the home cos the kids are doing it all? You should be ashamed of yourselves!
Father is being abusive and you are neglecting their needs. 15 yo should be in school, if she’s working to that’s a lot of work. You should maintain your own house and they can have a few chores. They are not your maids and they will resent you for not sticking up for them. You as parents are in the wrong 100%
You two are real pieces of work. Your kids will rebel, move away and never contact you again…and you’ll deserve it. Your husband emotionally and verbally abuses your children, and you allow it.
I have 2 children 19 and 13. They pull their weight (room upkeep, their bathroom, unloading dishwasher and taking out trash) they are NOT paid for these things because it’s a part of life to learn, they do get an allowance as well as privileges for doing extra. We would NEVER chastise them for doing things incorrectly. They are lessons to be learned and skills they will need in the future. Kids should be allowed to be kids!
When your kids grow up what will their memories be?
They should have chores tho. Having a couch potato isn’t teaching life skills
My husband’s parents are the same. I have always said A CHILD NEVER ASKS TO BE BORN and simple task as keeping the home clean, keeping the children fed, safe and sheltered IS NOT thier responsibility! It is most definitely the parents, I would say this is yall being lazy. You stated “the chores blah blah because we work full time and I cook sometimes blah blah blah” and don’t think the 15 year old should be upset that she started working and her chores hasn’t been lightened?
The chores a child should be assigned is just keeping thier rooms or messed cleaned up. Not the whole house. That is abuse.
The fact you need advice? My advice , let them find better parents!
I don’t think what you expect is unreasonable, however his reactions to them not being perfect is beyond unreasonable. She is right. You are letting your husband abuse your children.
Well in my opinion I’m this milenium u need to micro manage their kids. Ur husband sounds like mine. Was he a Marine? It isn’t always ok with how they talk to them but if ur kids are anything like mine, they only listen when spoken to in that fashion. Being micro managed is not abuse. Maybe the name calling could be fixed but sometimes kids need a reality check
Feels like you’re too far gone at this point. Remember, your kids? Didn’t ask to be born. And you’re probably making them regret that they were. They’re not slaves nor housekeepers. Expecting chores is totally fine, but having them do EVERYTHING to the point that you have to do NOTHING? And I bet you still remind them that it’s your house.
Wow I just can’t believe what a douchebag your husband sounds like and you sit back and just let it happen but I’m sure he abuses you too.
You could always clean the house yourself. I understand children should have chores to learn responsibility and to work for money so they have a good work ethic. What you’re doing is abusing your children and using them as you’re personal maids. I work my but off and I still clean my house and my kids have certain chores that they get paid for. You need to stop and realize what you guys are doing before the state comes in and takes them
I came from a home just like this!!
I am so grateful that my parents raised me this way.
My brother & I have always been held to a higher regard then our peers because of our ability to complete projects quickly, & efficiently, because of how well mannered & respectful we are. It has taken both of us far in school, & our work place, & our lives.
Kids are no longer raised with discipline, & are no longer taught morals or respect at home. You are doing an awesome job! Makes sure your daughter still does her chores.
A little less yelling from dad wouldn’t hurt though. Maybe you can tell him that.
Um… I would act out too.
Repulsive.
The real sad thing, if this isnt stopped, this abuse will just perpetuate to their kids😔
Good thing this is anonymous. I’d be embarrassed if I were you. If I were your kids, I’d tell you to keep your $80 and clean the house yourself. I have 4 kids ages 12-21 who all still live at home. Aside from keeping their rooms/bathrooms cleaned, they each have one chore, whether it’s taking out the trash, emptying the dishwasher, running the vacuum, or keeping the kitchen tidy. THAT’S IT! My older three have jobs outside the home. Thanks for giving me an example to show them, when they want to complain about how bad they THINK they have it
It could always be worse.
5 girls in my family. We had to make our beds up before we left for school. Our house was kept clean and well organized. Less chaos . No pay for us, we knew if we didn’t do your chores we would get a butt buttered. My mother us to keep a clean house.
I’d be acting out too! Jeezus, expecting daily chores is part of growing up, especially if they want luxuries, but making them do everything and to such perfection, is a bit much. Your hubby sounds like a POS and you’re a bigger one for letting him treat your own kids that way. Seems like you’re totally afraid of him too, bcuz you keep your trap shut and dont stick up for your kids. I hope they resent you and move away and see you just for holidays, bcuz they’ll remember being worked as your slaves. GTFOH
U and ur husband haven’t had to do any upkeep then obviously they aren’t doing too bad. Cut the kid some slack.
I don’t think kids are supposed to be slaves. It sounds like a cold, abusive environment. Do they get to “live” in the house and just be kids? Your 15 yr old is talking …you should listen…and protect your kids from abuse!
Whilst it is good to instill discipline and responsibility, she is still a child.
Maybe you and hubby need to realign expectations. If you think he is taking it too far, then he is. Talk to him about easing up or picking up the slack himself.
You don’t have children you have mini servants by the sound of it. 1 or 2 chores no prob the fact you do fk all in your own house is shocking. Pull your finger out and act like a parent again.
So you wanted maids not kids
Seems like you had children to have a live in maid, chores are fine, but doing everything is not chores. Your not teaching discipline or responsibility, your feeling them with fear, especially by just sitting back when your husband goes off and you do nothing. You are only teaching your kids that they have no one to turn to for help or support. Strict parenting is great, but not allowing the kids to be kids, not so great.
He sounds like a Real Asshole!!! He needs to
Chill out. Kids don’t stay kids forever.The mom Sounds like a timid mouse. And he takes his frustrations out on the kids he is the problem.
Sounds like a damn Drill Sargeant house. Poor kids… let them be kids once in a while. They don’t stay young forever. Name calling is acceptable?? Cuz that will make them respect you. What a fucking joke. Mom and dad need help. Sorry not sorry.
You wrote a lovely justification for requiring them to work around the house, learn life skills, and be part of the family team. I believe it is the perfection you expect and the verbal abuse they receive that bothers many of us. Asking someone to redo or finish a job doesn’t require yelling. What if you EXPECT “good enough” and REWARD for perfection?
Been here. My parents expected me to do almost all the chores to the point all they had to do was cook once in awhile. And I can verify a point that others made on here, I do not speak to my parents. I have gone NC. Due to them I had no childhood. So yeah keep that up and you will lose your kids when they hit 18. It’s okay to have chores, but not to the point that the parents have almost nothing to do. And to let him verbally abuse your children is horrible. And believe me they will blame you for him doing that. So it’s your choice, do you want to keep the husband(as he is without therapy) or children?
Your kids need to be kids and not your slaves. Your husbands yelling and name calling is verbal abuse. It will have long term effects on their self esteem. You may think you are doing good by all of this but sadly you arent. Lighten up a bit! Quit justifying it to make yourself feel better. It is down right abuse reguardless if you pay them or give them the finer things in life…
Wait, you work and do chores. He works and yells. Kids work. One works works outside as well as at home. Big imbalance here imo. HE needs to pull his load too! When the eldest leaves, who’s going to do those chores? The poor baby when it’s the only one left. I definitely think kids should have responsibilities and learn accountability, but this sounds out of control. You think so as well or you wouldn’t have asked.
Hmmm… she has a job outside the home, as parents do, but her chores aren’t reduced despite the parents having to do virtually none? Yes, that sounds quite restrictive. Cloaking it in “teaching responsibility” is dishonest and not at all admirable.
You and your husband are repulsive and yes it is abuse.
They are children, not slaves. I honestly felt disgusted reading that whole thing. If you want your house cleaned to perfection, hire someone who is PAID to do so.
Sounds like you guys shouldn’t have kids
Don’t be surprised if your kids move out ASAP and you rarely see them. Yhis is a toxic environment
Wow all I got to say is wow wow
Sounds like a prison to me. And yes I will agree with your 15 year old that you are indeed letting him verbally abuse them. And you don’t seem to feel even the slightest bit of remorse for it.
Sounds like you stand back while he verbally abuses them just because you get a clean house out of the deal. If your child comes to you saying daddy abuses me it is your responsibility to get your child to safety!
I agree kids need to help out around the house, but you two sound like freaking dictators. Help…assist…be a part of the team, NOT do everything so you two can do nothing! You may think your doing it perfectly when in reality, you suck at it!
From experience, this type of parenting had led to me believing I would NEVER be good enough for my father. Nothing I ever did was good enough. How can you expect perfection when no one is perfect? You and your husband have unrealistic expectations and you both are driving your children away. It may be harsh to say but it’s TRUE.
Um, what you’re describing is called verbal and emotional abuse! How is it that the children are taking care of YOUR home. Take care of your own house. Wtf is wrong with you. Yeah kids should have chores and a routine but if you don’t like the way things are done, do it yourself. Hire a housekeeper. To constantly be yelling and calling names IS in fact ABUSE! Your 15 year old is right to feel abused because she is being abused. Y’all are wild and shouldn’t have kids, PERIOD! Having nice things such as phones and vacations doesn’t make up for all of the abuse! For fucks sake, you disgust me for real.